United States Court of Appeals
for the
District of Columbia Circuit
TRANSCRIPT OF
RECORD
Court of Appeals of the District of Columbia
APRIL TERM, 1930
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC
APPELLANT,
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
APPEAL FROM THE FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION,
FILED JUNE 16, 1930,
PRINTED OCTOBER 6, 1930
Court of Appeals of the District of Columbia
APRIL TERM, 1930
No. 5240
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC.,
APPELLANT,
VS. I
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
APPEAL FROM THE FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
INDEX.
Original Print
Appellant’s notice of appeal. i... 1 1
Statement of facts and grounds for decision. \... 14 10
Application of March loth, 1930, for renewal of license.. J... 19 14
Letter of May 5th signed Frank H. Lovette, Applicant’s
Exhibit 1. i ... 27 20
Letters of May 14th and May 16th, Applicant's Exhibits 5
and 6. j... 2S 21
General Order No. 37 of the Commission. 32 24
Commission’s order of June 13th denying renewal of license. 34 26
Testimony of Frank B. Falknor at hearing before the Federal
Radio Commission. 1... 45 26
D. D. Denver, Jr. j... 50 27
Charles B. Trimmer. i... 155 86
Mrs. Hazel Carlton. i... 166 93
Mr. Earl M. Carlton. i... 171 96
Mrs. B. Hall. j... 179 98
Mrs. John Thompson. j... ISO 99
B. E. Parks. >... 182 100
Bertha Lacey. 187 103
Dr. Hugh Young. ^... 193 107
Mrs. E. S. Shovlain. i... 212 115
Lee McChesney. j... 223 122
Judd & Detweiler (Inc.), Printers, Washington, D. C„ July 24, 1930.
11
INDEX
Original Print
Testimony of James A. Scheuren. 237 130
Ruby At hey. 254 141
Dr. E. S. Edgerton. 300 15S
Dr. James Stewart. 327 1*2
C. L. Brown. 3SS 199
Frederick Xeaderhiser. 422 204
Dr. Tiberius L. Jones. 459 20S
Dr. W. €. Purviance. 489 225
Dr. O. M. Owensby. 506 236
Affidavits of Howard H. Wilson. 522 244
Financial statement. 539 259
Affidavits of Calvin J. Miller, Applicant’s Exhibits 13, 14,
35, 36. and 39... *. 555 259
Affidavit of Mrs. Emily Jager, Exhibit Xo. 37. 582 284
Mrs. Homer Sisk, Exhibit Xo. 3S. 584 286
Thomas Cullan, dated May 15th, 1930 . 585 287
Mrs. Mary Brakebill, Commission’s Exhibit E... 587 289
Eugene Wallace, Commission’s Exhibit F. 588 290
Grace Dedrick, with Exhibt A attached, marked
Commission’s Exhibit D. 589 292
Letter, Applicant’s Exhibits 42a and 42b. 605 314
Affidavit of John L. Zahner, Exhibit Xo. 6. 611 315
Affidavit of Dr. H. Romies, Applicant's Exhibit Xo. 48. 614 315
Stipulation as to transcript of record. 616 317
i
i
Court of Appeals of the District of Columbia
No. 5240.
j
KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc., Appellant,
vs.
Federal Radio Commission]
1 In the Court of Appeals of the District of Columbia.
KFKB Broadcasting Ass’n, Inc., Appellant,
vs.
Federal Radio Commission, Appellee.
Notice of Appeal and the Reasons Thereof.
I. Notice of Appeal.
i
Now this, the sixteenth day of June, comes the KFKB
Broadcasting Association, Inc., appellant herein, and says,
it is aggrieved by a majority decision of the Federal Radio
Commission rendered June 13th, 1930, effective after 3:00
a. m. Eastern Standard Time, June 20th, 1930, for renewal
of its station license to operate its broadcasting station
KFKB at Milford, Kansas, on the frequency of 1050 kilo¬
cycles with power of 5KW with time of broadcasting limited
to daylight hours Hollywood, California, time;
Wherefore, appellant gives notice of its appeal from said
decision to the Court of Appeals of the District of Colum¬
bia assigning in support thereof the reasons for appeal
hereinafter set forth.
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION,
INC., !
By GEORGE E. STRONG, j
Its Attorney.
1—5240 a
2
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
II. Eeasons for Appeal.
(a) Statement of Proceedings.
This appeal arises out of the refusal of appellant’s appli¬
cation for renewal of its station license, which expired
April 30th, 1930, and which was renewed for an additional
thirty days to enable appellant to show, if it so de-
2 sired, that the station was broadcasting in the public
interest, convenience, or necessity, the hearing to be
held May 20th, 1930. The notice of this hearing was mailed
to appellant on May 5th, 1930, although the general orders
of the Commission provide for twenty days notice from time
of mailing, thus limiting the time within which the station
could prepare for the hearing to less than the time allowed
other stations under the general orders of the Commission.
The petition of appellant for a continuance and for a speci¬
fication of the charges, date and specific nature thereof,
was refused. The hearing on appellant’s application for
renewal of license was commenced May 20th, 1930, and con¬
tinued to and including May 22nd, 1930, whereupon on mo¬
tion of appellant it was granted ten days within which to
submit additional evidence, and the license was renewed
for an additional period expiring June 20th, 1930, to enable
the Commission to consider the evidence and arrive at a
decision. The decision of the Commission was announced
to the press on June 13th, but owing to the failure of the
Commission to publish and forward to appellant an official
statement of its minutes and/or orders relating to said ap¬
plication, appellant has been unable to ascertain the exact
nature of any matter, order, or record the Commission
may have filed in said cause, and further owing to the failure
of the Commission to prepare and file any written statement
of the reason for its decision, appellant has been unable to
determine the grounds on which the Commission will at¬
tempt to rely in supporting its said decision in this Court.
The United States Daily, under date of June 14th, 1930,
states, “By a three to two vote, the Federal Eadio Commis¬
sion on June 13th, refused to renew the license of Station
KFKB, Milford, Kansas. * * * The station will go off
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
3
the air on June 20th, at which time the temporary license
the station now holds expires.”
The result is that appellant will be compelled to cease
broadcasting after June 19th, 1930, at incalduable incon¬
venience and substantial, irreparable loss and in-
3 jury, before this Court will have an opportunity to
determine whether the Federal Radio Commission
erred in its application of the statutory standard of public
interest, convenience, or necessity, to the facts and issues
before it, unless this Court forthwith issues its order stay¬
ing the action of the Commission pending determination of
the matter presented by this appeal.
The United States Daily also states as follows:
“Following the meeting, Commissioner Ira E. Robinson
announced that he and Vice Chairman E. 0. Sykes had op¬
posed the majority action. He said that the minority fav¬
ored issuance of a probationary license, on condition that
Dr. Brinkley cease the practice of prescribing medicines
for listeners over the air. This practice, he declared, was in
the nature of point-to-point communication, in violation of
international radio law.
“Otherwise, Commissioner Robinson declared, the con¬
duct of the station, as a mere ‘sponsorship’ of the hospital
conducted by Dr. Brinkley, in the opinion of the minority,
was not in violation of the terms of the radio law.
“He said that it was no different than the operation of
stations by large electrical companies or othey commercial
groups with the aim of furthering their business by radio
advertising.
“Charges against the Milford station had been made by
the American Medical Association and other medical so¬
cieties. At hearings it was contended that Dr. Brinkley had
used ‘obscene, profane and indecent’ language over the
station, and had prescribed medicines by numbers in an¬
swer to mail received from listeners without personally di¬
agnosing the cases. It was brought out, also, that these
numbered prescriptions could be obtained only at drug
stores which are members of the Brinkley Pharmaceutical
Association. ’ ’ I
It appears from the foregoing that although the Commis¬
sion erred in its reported decision of June 13th, 1930, in a
4 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
manner and to an extent to be hereinafter described, ap¬
pellant after June 20th, will be unable to broadcast, al¬
though this station has been broadcasting since 1923, and
has repeatedly been licensed by the Commission as serving
public interest, convenience or necessity, with apparatus
and programs inferior, if anything, to that used in the last
license period.
(b) Statement Relating to the Station.
History.—Radio Station KFKB began broadcasting in
1923, at a time when there were no radio stations in the state
of Kansas, and was owned by Dr. J. R. Brinkley, a physician
and surgeon of Milford, Kansas, who began broadcasting
to entertain the sick in his hospital and in the homes
4 in the state of Kansas. At that time the station had
500 watts power and was broadcasting at night, as
well as by day. 1 Shortly thereafter the Kansas State Agri¬
cultural College made application to broadcast its School
of the Air over this station, which it did for nearly two
years, free of all charges. The programs of the station
were arranged to meet the needs of rural Kansas. Fine
orchestras were employed, lectures on public health were
given, weather reports, live stock exchange reports, lec¬
tures, Bible talks, and a varied, interesting program was
of its station licenses to operate its broadcasting station
soon a part of the program of the station.
On September 12th, 1928, a construction permit was ap¬
proved by the Federal Radio Commission to enable the
station to install new apparatus to broadcast with 5,000
watts power, it having been broadcasting on a maximum of
2,500 w'atts prior to that time, and on October 29th, 1928, it
was licensed with that power effective November llth, 1928.
On February 16th, 1929, the station was licensed to
broadcast on 1050 kilocycles with 5,000 watts power, but
with the hours of broadcasting limited to daylight time
(Hollywood, California time), which is from approximately
five in the morning until eight in the evening during the
winter months, Kansas time. The station continued to be
owned and operated by Dr. J. R. Brinkley of Milford, Kan¬
sas, until November 26th, 1929, when the KFKB Broad¬
casting Association, Inc., a corporation organized under
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
5
the laws of the state of Kansas, became the owner, with the
programs and management the same, except that auxiliary
power was installed and the equipment further modernized,
and in response to public demand the medical question box,
a feature broadcast by Dr. Brinkley, was increased from a
half hour a day to an hour and a half a day.
Evidence.—The evidence before the Commission clearly
shows that the station has been operating as a successful
commercial enterprise in the public interest. The acts of
the Commission in renewing the license of December 13th,
1929, for the period effective January 31st, to April 30th,
1930, and approving its installation of new equipment such
as crystal control and auxiliary power, is an admission of
this fact.
5 On May 5th, 1930, the acting secretary of the Com¬
mission notified the station that the Commission was
not satisfied that it was broadcasting in the public interest
and that it could be heard on May 20th, if it so desired;
otherwise its license would not be renewed, beyond the tem¬
porary extension expiring May 30th, 1930. This letter
stated that charges had been made of deviation from fre¬
quency, the broadcasting of obscene, indecent and false
matter, but that the hearing would not be limited to these
charges. Appellant pointed out that the Commission had
not granted it the customary twenty days notice provided
for by the general orders of the Commission, that the
charges were so vague and indefinite and uncertain as to
time and nature that the appellant could not properly pre¬
pare for the hearing, and asked that the charges be made
definite and certain, and that a continuance be granted, all
of which were denied.
The Hearing.—At the hearing, appellant’s attorneys
interposed timely objections to the admission in evidence of
testimony as to the success or failure of the operations of
the hospital which had sponsored programs to the extent of
about 10% of the fifteen hours during which the station was
broadcasting, or an hour and a half a day; to the testimony
of doctors with regard to prescribing medicine over the
radio as a part of three one-half hour periods a day ques¬
tion box in health when these doctors had not seen the ques¬
tions or diagnoses of ills submitted to the doctor who broad¬
cast answers; to any evidence which was material only if
6
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
the Commission could censor programs which the Radio Act
of 1927 specifically prohibits; to prejudicial statements
made by the Commissioner conducting the hearing; to the
introduction in evidence of a pamphlet which was not iden¬
tified by anyone, which was highly prejudicial, which was
not connected with the broadcasting station in any way,
nor shown to have been sent out by anyone in response to
a broadcast bv the station or bv the station itself; to num-
erous affidavits, some containing hearsay and others mater¬
ially altered by striking out portions thereof, or stated con¬
clusions, or which were with reference to the alleged
6 failure of certain patients of the hospital to be cured;
to the intervention of an Assistant Attorney Gen¬
eral from the State of Kansas as attorney in the case, when
he would not state that he was favoring or opposing the
renewal of the license but merelv that he was there to assist
the Commission;!to the testimony of doctors who had never
prescribed over the radio nor performed the operation
which the hospital performed. On none of these motions or
objections was appellant given the benefit of a ruling, but in
each instance the Commissioner presiding at the hearing,
Honorable Ira E. Robinson, reserved his ruling, so that
appellant was not and is not now advised what testimony
was submitted to or considered by the Commission in reach¬
ing its decision in this case. Likewise, certain affidavits
offered by appellant were reserved for ruling by the Com¬
mission when it considered the case, and appellant does not
know as to whether these affidavits were considered. Ap¬
pellant is not advised whether the Commissioner who con¬
ducted the hearing submitted a written or verbal report for
consideration of his colleagues; but it is significant that
according to the newspaper report quoted above, the Com¬
missioner who conducted the hearing favored renewal of
the license, and of the three Commissioners who refused to
renew the license, one of them was not present during the
taking of testimony but was present during the argument
bv counsel for appellant, and two of them were absent at
the time of the argument of the case and were onlv present
for a short time during the taking of the testimony. There
has been no opportunity to file objections to any finding or
conclusion of the; presiding Commissioner or the Commis-
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
7
arbitrary and capricious action generally regarded and es¬
tablished as a necessary incident of due process of law in
proceedings before administrative agencies.!
The charge of deviation from frequency! was not with¬
drawn until after appellant had gone to thfe expense inci¬
dent to placing an expert engineer On the stand to
7 testify that the apparatus and method of frequency
control was the equal of the best stations in the coun¬
try and was in good order, at which time and not until that
time did counsel for the Commission withdraw the charge
of deviation from frequency, stating that there was no evi¬
dence to support it, although this charge had been solemnly
made in a letter to the station dated May 5th, 1930.
Because of the reservation of rulings on all of appellant’s
material motions or objections, it was necessary at the time
of the hearing for appellant to meet the allegations made by
the Commission, as well as to meet additional allegations
concerning which it was not advised, such as that the hos¬
pital which sponsored 10% of the programs over the sta¬
tion was performing an impossible, a fraudulent, and harm¬
ful operation, that the prescription of medicine in connec¬
tion with the medical question box, which question box itself
only occupied 10% of the total time, was j in violation of
international radio law, in that it was “!point-to-point”
broadcasting, on the theory that no one was interested ex¬
cepting the person asking the question with regard to his
health and the doctor who broadcast the answer; that one
allegedly obscene question and answer had been broadcast
by the station some time in January, February or March,
1930, but no more definite time was fixed, so that the sta¬
tion could not meet this evidence other th^n by thousands
of affidavits from regular listeners to the effect that they
had heard nothing of an obscene, indecent ;or false nature,
and the testimony of station witnesses to the same effect.
The hearing was conducted with such an utter disregard
of fundamental rules of evidence that appellant could not
place one of its important witnesses on the stand because
he would have been subjected to immaterial and irrelevant
questions and the hearing would have been even more of a
fishing expedition than it was, to assist the: American Med¬
ical Association and the Kansas Medical Association, and
the Kansas City Star in prosecuting or defending actions
against Dr. J. R. Brinkley in other proceedings before
8
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
other tribunals than the Federal Radio Commission.
8 Cross examination was not limited to the testimony
brought out on direct examination, nor to matters
pertinent to the issues.
To summarize, the hearing was conducted in an inade¬
quate, manifestly unfair and prejudicial manner, without
prior notice to appellant as to the nature, time, and extent
of the charges against it, prejudicial testimony was per¬
mitted to be offered over objection, and a ruling thereon
was reserved so that certain members of the Commission,
untrained in law or the rules of evidence and the safeguards
necessarv to be thrown around evidence, would be neces-
sarilv influenced thereby. Affidavits were admitted which
* •
either were irrelevant, not connected up with the station, or
so far removed from the programs of the station as to have
no reasonable relation thereto. Furthermore, they had no
opportunity to study the transcript of the hearing before
endeavoring to obtain evidence to meet the wishes of the
Commission and the new charges made by the Commis¬
sioner conducting the hearing, and disclosed for the first
time at the hearing and from time to time as it progressed.
Specification of Errors.—Appellant respectfully shows
the court that the decision of the Commission of June 13th,
1930, and the proceedings of the Commission upon which
the same is based, are erroneous in the following respects:
1. The order refusing to renew the license is contrary to
the evidence without evidence to sustain it, and is arbitrary,
unreasonable and capricious.
2. The evidence is such that no fair conclusion can be
reached save the granting of the license is in the public
interest, convenience and necessity, and hence the Commis¬
sion is without power to deny said application.
3. Said order, if it could be sustained, on any theory
whatsoever, would necessarily be based on testimony which
was both irrelevant and prejudicial and which was ad¬
mitted over the objection of the appellant.
9 4. The trial Commissioner erred in refusing to
rule on objections and in placing such objectionable
testimony in the record for the consideration of its mem¬
bers.
5. The Commission erred in failing to announce or state
the grounds for its decision as required by law, thus depriv-
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
9
ing appellant of its rights on appeal, and attempting to es¬
tablish proceedings upon appeal in which the Commission
can seek out new reasons for sustaining its action after the
appeal has been taken.
6. The Commission erred in conducting a hearing on in¬
sufficient notice to appellant.
7. The Commission erred in not making known to appel¬
lant the charges against it prior to the heaping.
8. The Commission erred in its construction of the law
and the admission of testimony relating to the medical
question box, the operations conducted by the hospital, the
publications sent out by the hospital in response to in¬
quiries resulting from the broadcast of programs sponsored
by the hospital and of a document which was not connected
up with any program sponsored over the air and was not
shown to have been sent by the hospital or received by any¬
one from the hospital, which document was highly preju¬
dicial. !
9. The Commission erred in denying a renewal of license,
thereby indirectly censoring not more than 20% of the sta¬
tion’s programs, which censorship is specifically prohibited
by Section 29 of the Radio Act of 1927 as amended, the re¬
maining 80% of the station’s programs being sponsored
and broadcast in the undisputed public interest.
10. The decision of the Commission deprives appellant
of his property in its station and the use thereof without
due process of law, contrary to the provisions of the fifth
amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
III. Revision Requested.
i
Wherefore appellant prays an order of this Court
10-12 to the effect that it was on June 13th, and now is en¬
titled to a renewal of its station license specifying
the use of 1050 kilocycles with power of 5,000 watts during
the davlight hours, Hollvwood, California, time.
GEORGE E. STRONG,
Attorney for Appellant.
Notice to the Federal Radio Commission.
The Federal Radio Commission will please take notice
:
that the foregoing notice of appeal and reasons therefor
will be filed forthwith in the Court of Appeals for the Dis-
|
i
10
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
trict of Columbia, pursuant to the provisions of the radio
act of 1927, as amended.
GEORGE E. STRONG,
Attorney for Appellant.
The undersigned, George E. Strong, personally appear¬
ing before me, a Notary Public in and for the District of
Columbia, being sworn, says that he is one of the attorneys
for the KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc., appellant
herein; that the foregoing is a true copy of the Notice of
Appeal and Reasons Therefor to be filed with the Court of
Appeals of the District of Columbia.
GEORGE E. STRONG.
Subscribed and sworn to this 16 dav of June, A. D. 1930.
LILLIAN K. LINDQUIST,
Notary Public.
Service of a certified copy of the foregoing Notice of Ap¬
peals and Reasons Therefor is acknowledged this 16 day of
June, A. D. 1930.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION,
By JAMES W. BALDWIN,
Secretary.
J. B. R.
13 [Endorsed:] In the Court of Appeals of the Dis¬
trict of Columbia. KFKB Broadcasting Ass’n, Inc.,
Appellant, vs. Federal Radio Commission, Appellee. Notice
of Appeal and the Reasons Thereof and Petition for Stay
Order. Holland & Strong, Metropolitan Bank Building,
Washington, D. C. Court of Appeals, District of Colum¬
bia. Filed Jun. 16, 1930. Henry W. Hodges, Clerk.
14 In the Court of Appeals of the District of Columbia.
No. 5240.
KFKB Broadcasting Ass’n, Inc., Appellant,
v.
Federal Radio Commission.
Statement of Facts and Grounds for Decision of the Fed¬
eral Radio Commission.
The Federal Radio Commission, pursuant to Section 16
of the Radio Act of 1927, files this, its decision and state-
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION. 11
ment in writing, of the facts and grounds for its decision
with reference to the denial, on June 13, 1930, of the appli¬
cation of KFKB Broadcasting Ass’n, Inb., for renewal of
broadcasting station license.
Proceedings.
On March 22, 1930 the Federal Radib Commission re¬
ceived in its offices in Washington, D. C- the application
of appellant for renewal of its license to operate Station
KFKB, its then existing license expiring April 30, 1930.
Being unable to reach a decision that public interest, con¬
venience and necessity would be served by granting said
application, the Commission designated the same for hear¬
ing and authorized the operation of the station until May
30, 1930. Subsequently the Commission extended the ap¬
pellant’s license until a decision on the hearing on the re¬
newal application, but in no event beyond June 20, 1930.
A hearing was held on May 21, 22 and 23,! 1930, and at that
time appellant appeared by counsel and introduced
15 evidence tending to establish that the granting of
appellant’s application would be in the public in¬
terest, convenience and necessity. On June 13, 1930 the
Commission found that public interest, convenience and
necessity would not be served by granting said applica¬
tion and directed that an order be entered reciting said
finding and denying said application.
Facts and Grounds for Decision.
Station KFKB, formerly licensed to Dr. John R. Brink-
ley, is owned and operated by the KFKB Broadcasting
Ass’n, Inc., and is located at Milford, Kansas. Dr. Brink-
ley and his wife, M. T. Brinkley, own a considerable in¬
terest in the association which operates the station. From
the record it appears that Dr. Brinkley is, in fact, in con¬
trol of the association, directs the operation of the station
and fixes its policies. Dr. Brinkley is also the proprietor
of a hospital at Milford, Kansas.
The Brinkley Pharmaceutical Association, formed by
Dr. Brinkley, is composed entirely of druggists who dis¬
pense to the public certain medical preparations prepared
according to formulas of Dr. Brinklev and known to the
public only by numerical designations. The druggist
12
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
members of this association pay to Dr. Brinkley a fee upon
each sale of certain of those medical preparations.
The income of Station KFKB for the period February,
March and April, 1930 was derived from the sources and
in the amounts following:
Brinkley Pharmaceutical Association.$27,856.40
Brinkley Hospital . 6,500.00
All other sources ... 3,544.93
Total .$37,901.33
Disbursements for the same period aggregate
16 $33,483.67. Receipts from the Brinkley Hospital
normally average $5,000 to $7,000 per month. It is
apparent that the operation of this station is almost totally
dependent upon funds received from the Brinkley interests.
Dr. Brinkley personally broadcasts during three one-
half hour periods daily over Station KFKB. This particu¬
lar broadcast is referred to as the “medical question box”,
and is devoted entirely to the diagnosing of cases from
symptoms given in letters addressed either to Dr. Brinkley
or to the station, and the prescribing of treatment. These
“patients” are unknown to the physician except by means
of their letters, each letter containing a code signature
which is used in making answer by means of the broad¬
casting station. It is the practice to advise the writer of
the letter that he is suffering from a certain ailment and
to recommend to him that he secure from one of the mem¬
bers of the Brinley Pharmaceutical Association a prescrip¬
tion of Dr. Brinkley’s of a certain number and take that
as treatment. Often the instructions include the name of
a particular druggist from whom the prescription can be
obtained.
Dr. Brinkley sponsors a number of programs of Sta¬
tion KFKB for the purpose of advertising the Brinkley
Hospital and securing patients. From time to time he has
delivered, or has prepared and caused to be delivered, over
Station KFKB three daily one-half hour lectures on medi¬
cal subjects, and through announcements over Station
KFKB that certain books and pamphlets were available for
distribution to the public and the inquiries resultant there¬
from distributed through the mails a number of pamphlets
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
13
on medical subjects which are of questionable value and of
an indecent nature.
The practice of Station KFKB in permitting the use of
the purpose of
medical question
its station by Dr. Brinkley for
17 answering letters in the so-called
box constitutes the use of a broadcasting station li¬
cense for point-to-point communication, and is contrary to
the International Radiotelegraph Convention of 1927, and
is of itself a sufficient abuse of Station KFKB’s license to
broadcast to warrant refusal to renew that license.
The Commission is expressly precluded by the Radio Act
of 1927 from exercising any power of censorship. At the
same time, the Commission must, under the statutory
standard, reach a decision that the nature of the programs
broadcast is in the public interest, convenience and neces¬
sity before it may grant an application. Upon the evidence
adduced, the Commission feels constrained to hold that the
practice of a physician’s prescribing treatment for a
patient whom he has never seen, and bases his diagnosis
upon what symptoms may be recited by the patient in a
letter addressed to him, is inimical to the public health
and safety, and for that reason is not in tjtie public interest.
The testimony in this case shows conclusively that the
operation of Station KFKB is conducted only in the per¬
sonal interest of Dr. John R. Brinkley. While it is to be
expected that a licensee of a radio broadcasting station
will receive some remuneration for serving the public with
radio programs, at the same time the interest of the listen¬
ing public is paramount, and may not be subordinated to
the interests of the station licensee. A license to operate
a radio broadcasting station is a franchise from the pub¬
lic, and the licensee is a trustee for the public. Station
KFKB has not been operated in the interest of the listen¬
ing public and we, therefore, find that public interest, con¬
venience and necessity will not be served by granting the
application for renewal of its license.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION,
By E. 0. SYKES,
Vice-Chairman.
OK.
BEN S. FISHER,
Act. Gen. Counsel.
14
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
38 [Endorsed:] No. 5240. In the Court of Appeals
of the District of Columbia. KFKB Broadcasting
Ass ’n, Inc., Appellant, v. Federal Radio Commission.
Statement of Facts and Grounds for Decision. Federal
Radio Commission. Court of Appeals, District of Co¬
lumbia. Filed Jul. 2, 1930. Henry W. Hodges, Clerk.
19 Form No. 37-A.
File No: —. Official No.: 507. Call Letters: KFKB.
Class of Service:-.
United States of America, Federal Radio Commission.
Application for Renewal of Radio Broadcasting Station
License.
(Submit in duplicate to District Supervisor of Radio in
charge of District in which station is located. Swear
to one copy.)
To the Federal Radio Commission:
1. Name of applicant *: KFKB Broadcasting Associa¬
tion, Incorporated.
2. Post-office address: State, Kansas; City, Milford;
Street and number, 5th and Barry.
3. Citizenship: American Born.
4. State whether applicant is a corporation, partnership,
or association. Incorporation.
5. If applicant is a corporation, state (a) Under laws of
what State it is organized. Kansas. ( b) May one-fifth or
more of capital stock be voted by aliens or their repre¬
sentatives, or by a foreign government or representative
thereof? No. ( c ) Is any director or officer an alien? If
* If a corporation, state corporate name: if a partnership, state names
of all partners and the name under which the partnership does busi¬
ness: if an unincorporated association, state the name of an executive
officer, the office held by him, and the name of the association. The
same name or names should be signed in the place provided at the end
of application, except that in the case of a partnership the applica¬
tion may be signed in the name of the partnership by one of the
partners. This application must be executed and signed in the name
which appears on the license for which renewal is requested, unless
there has been an assignment of the license with the written consent
of the Commission.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
15
so, state his name and position. No. ( d ) If applicant is
a subsidiary, state name and address of parent company
and under laws of what State or country parent company
is organized. No. (e) Whether stock is to be sold for the
purpose of raising money to operate station. No.
20 6. State fully the facts showing applicant’s finan¬
cial responsibility with respect to operation of this
station. Incorporated for $150,000 and capital fully paid
in, assets of stockholders more than one million.
7. Is applicant a representative of an alien or foreign
Government? No.
8. Has the applicant, since February 23, 1927, been
finally adjudged guilty by any Federal court of unlawfully
monopolizing, or attempting unlawfully to monopolize, radio
communication through control of manufacture or sale of
radio apparatus, exclusive traffic arrangements, or any
other means, or of unfair methods of competition? No.
9. State applicant’s relation to station (whether appli¬
cant is owner or lessee, and if not, nature of applicant’s
interest in use and control of station. Owner;.
10. If applicant is not owner of station, who is? X.
11. File number and date of license sought to be re¬
newed. #507 Effective January 31st to April 30th.
12. Description of transmitting apparatus (if more than
one transmitter is to be used, the following information
should be submitted separately for each such transmitter):
(a) Make, Composite Western Electric; (b) Type, Crystal
Control power amplifier; (c) Manufacturer’s serial num¬
ber, 120; (d) Oscillator: Type of circuit, Qpartz Crystal;
Number of tubes, 1; Plate current (per tuf»e), 62 milli-
ampere; Plate voltage, 400; (e) Number of intermediate
power amplifier stages (if any), Three; (/) power ampli¬
fier, if used (last stage): Number of tubes, two; Normal
operating: Plate current (per tube), .75 amp.; Plate volt¬
age, 10,000; Manufacturer’s rating of tubes: Plate current,
.75 amp.; Plate voltage, 10,000; Power output, 5,000 watts;
( g ) Modulator: Number of tubes, 1; Plate current (per
tube), 500 mils.; Plate voltage, 5,000; Which radio stage is
modulated? Third Intermediate; (h) Maximum power out¬
put, 5,000 watts; Minimum power output for satisfactory
operation, 5,000 watts; Normal radiated power, 704 meter
amperes; Height of antenna (from its ground or counter-
16
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
poise to highest point of antenna), 32 meters; Antenna cur¬
rent (at base), 20 amperes; (i) Plate power supply
21 source for last stage, 10,000 volt generators; Rat¬
ings (voltage and current), 10,000 volt, 5 amp.; What
is maximum percentage of modulation? 100 per cent;
Modulation measuring device is Westinghouse Oscilloscope
type “Osiso”.
13. (a) Type of antenna: Flat top. ( b ) Height of verti¬
cal lead: 100 feet, (c) Length of flat top (if any): 135 feet.
( d ) Counterpoise, type, and dimensions: None used. ( e)
Distance between towers or antenna supports: 179 feet.
(/) Resistance of antenna system: 13 ohms. ( g) Date ap¬
paratus was installed: 1923, 1927,1929.
14. (a) The applicant represents that the attached is an
accurate schematic diagram of the fundamental radio and
audio circuit of the transmitter, including antenna and
ground or counterpoise connections, antenna feed system,
and that it indicates type and power of tubes with manu¬
facturer’s name. (This should be a blue print or ink draw¬
ing, approximately the size of this application, or a com¬
plete schematic diagram of any size applicant has on file
may be submitted.) No change in transmitter since last
application was made. (Except antenna. See Question
#36.) ( b ) Speech input equipment: Make, Western Elec¬
tric; type, 5-B; Audio monitoring device, Western Electric
18B amp. fed by air monitor pick up.
15. (a) Within how many cycles of assigned frequency
will frequency of transmitter be maintained continuously?
50 cycles. (&) State what apparatus is included as an in¬
tegral part of the transmitter that will automatically hold
frequency within the limits specified in answer to 15(a)
(such as quartz crystal). Quartz crystal with thermostatic
control. If crystal is used, state whether or not crystal
has automatic temperature control: Yes. If not, whv
not? X.
16. (a) What type of frequency measurement or calibra¬
tion apparatus will be used to tune the transmitter or check
its tuning? Automatic frequency control. (6) Within how
many cycles will this apparatus measure the frequency?
50. (c) What methods will be used to cheek the calibration
of this precision instrument? X. ( d ) How often is this
instrument checked? X.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
17
22 17. Location of transmitter: State, Kansas;
County, Geary; City or town, Milford; Street and
number, 5th & Barry; Latitude: Degrees, 39°; minutes, 9';
second, 40"; Longitude: Degrees, 96°; minutes, 42'; sec¬
onds, 49". I
18. Description of auxiliary transmitting apparatus, if
any: (1) Make, None; (2) Type, X; (3) Manufacturer’s
serial number, X. j
19. Location of auxiliary transmitter, X; Latitude: De¬
grees, X; minutes, —; seconds, —; Longitude: Degrees, X;
minutes, —; seconds, —.
20. Location of main studio: State, Kansas; County,
Geary; City or town, Milford; Street and number, 5th &
Barry; Other studios, None.
21. (a) Name and give location of any airports or fly¬
ing fields within 10 miles of transmitter. Marshall Field,
Fort Riley, Kansas 12 miles away. ( b ) Give distance from
transmitter to each of such airports or flying fields. 12
miles, (c) Name and give distance from transmitter to any
established airwavs within 10 miles of location of trans-
•t
mitter. None, {d) Give maximum height (in feet) of
towers or antenna above ground level. 110. (e) Are towers
painted and marked with signal lights to conform with De¬
partment of Commerce, Bureau of Aeronautics, regula¬
tions! No. I
22. Number of persons residing within various distances
of transmitter: 400. (a) For stations of all powers, give
number of persons residing within 1 mile: —f; 2 miles, 600;
3 miles, 750. (5) For all stations of power above 1 KW,
give, in addition to above, the number of persons residing
within 5 miles; 1,000; 8 miles, 2,000.
23. (a) The following radio transmitting stations (by
call letters) are located within 1 mile ; of location of
23 transmitter: None; 2 miles, None; 3 miles, None;
8 miles, None. (5) The following radio nonbroad¬
casting (commercial or Government) receiving stations are
located within 1 mile of the location of transmitter: None;
2 miles, None; 3 miles, None; 8 miles, None. I
24. Has any change in location of either transmitter or
main studio been made during present license period! No.
If so, what change! X.
2—5240a
18
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
25. Specify actual periods station has been operated since
effective date of existing license:
A. M. P. M. Total daily hours.
Sundav .
. . . . 8 to 9
12 to 7:30
8 hrs..30 mins.
Mondav .
. 5-12
12 to 7:30
14 1 /) hrs.
Tuesdav .
. . . . 5-12
12 to 7:30
14y 2 hrs.
Wednesday . . .
. . 5-12
12 to 7:30
14 1 /* hrs.
Thursday .
. . .. 5-12
12 to 7:30
1414 hrs.
Fridav .
5-12
12 to 7:30
14!/2 hrs.
Saturdav .
. 5-12
12 to 7:30
141/2 hrs.
Total weekly hours. 95!,4 hrs.
Now operating until 8:00 P. M.
26. Does station divide time? Yes. If so, with what
station? KNX.
27'. State average number of hours per month station
will be operated during each month in the summer? 456
hours per month summer (approximately); Each month
in the winter, 396 hours per month winter (approximately).
28. Does station obtain programs from what is known
as a “chain”? No. (a) Name of chain, X. (&) What is
total hours per week of chain programs (i. e., programs,
both paid or sustaining, which are duplicated by any other
station) ? X.
24 29. (a) Attach printed program for week last pre¬
ceding date of this application. Attached. ( b ) Are
phonographic or mechanical reproductions used? No. If
so, how are thev announced. X.
30. The existing license authorizes the use of: (a) Fre¬
quency, 1,050 kilocycles; ( b ) Power output for daytime
operation, 5,000 watts; Nighttime, 5,000 watts; (c) Hours
of operation, 5 A. M. until sunset in Hollvwood, Calif.;
( d) Call letters, KFKB.
31. Under existing license, state (a) Average per cent of
time weekly, devoted to following services: (1) Entertain¬
ment, 75; (2) Religious, 2^4; (3) Commercial, 4; (4) Educa¬
tional, 9 hrs.; (5) Agricultural, 4; (6) Fraternal, 1;
(7) -; ( b) Average number of hours per month station
has operated during present license period, 427 x />. (c) Does
applicant sell time? Yes. ( d ) If applicant does not sell
time, how is station supported? X. (e) Number of weekly
hours of sponsored programs is 4 hrs.; of direct advertis¬
ing programs is None. (/) Are merchandise prices quoted
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
19
in interest of applicant! No; or others? No, ( g ) Average
number of hours sold weekly before 6 p. m., 4; after 6
p. m., None, (h) Average number of hours used weekly
in interest of applicant, six. ( i ) Average amount of money
spent weekly for talent, $900.00. ( j ) Total monthly net
income, $15,000 (approximately). j
32. Give names and classes of licensed operators in
charge of station: J. O. Weldon 1st class #4694 Date Apr.
23,1928—Commercial Calvin Miller 2nd class commercial—
#1320 Jan. 7, 1930 Earl L. Eggers Unlimited Broadcast
#1309—July 26, 1929. (a) Number of other employees, 24.
(b) Total weekly pay roll, $1,175.00.
25 33. Do you maintain continuous whtcli on ship¬
calling channel during operative hours? No.
34. (a) Is applicant directly or indirectly interested in
ownership or control of any other radio stations? No..
( b ) If so, state number, call letters, and location of such
stations. X.
35. State definite facts why the continued operation of the
station will be in the public convenience, interest, or neces¬
sity? The onlv Kansas station able to serve itlie west half
V •/
of Kansas at all times. The only Kansas station employ¬
ing full time professional talent for entertainment. The
mother station of Kansas Market reports of middle west.
36. Applicant’s most recent application for license is to
be considered as part of this application and the truth of
the statements therein contained is herebv reaffirmed, ex-
cept in so far as the contrary expressly appeal’s herein, and
in the following particulars: The antenna has been changed
from cage to flat top by telegraphic authority: response our
telegram February 2nd. The feed system has not been
changed. Authority Engineer Ring.
37. Applicant waives any claim to the use of any par¬
ticular frequency or of the ether as against tjie regulatory
power of the United States because of the previous use of
the same, whether by license or otherwise, and requests a
renewal of applicant’s existing license in accordance with
this application.
Dated this 15 day of March, 1930.
IvFKB BROADCASTING ASSN., INC.
(S.) HOWARD WILSON,
Secy.-Treai.,
| Applicant.
20
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
26 State of Kansas,
County of Geary, ss:
Howard Wilson, being first duly sworn, upon his oath
deposes and says that he is the (If applicant is not an indi¬
vidual, state relation of affiant to applicant) Sec.-Treasurer
above-named applicant and that the statements in the fore¬
going application are true of his own knowledge, except
as to such statements as are therein stated to be on informa¬
tion and belief, and as to such statements affiant believes
them to be true.
(S.) HOWARD WILSON.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 15th day of
March, 1930.
[seal.] L. W. McCHESNEY,
Notary Public.
Radio Supervisor’s Report.
Application received March 20, 1930.
Remarks (state anv pertinent facts): Forwarded March
20, 1930.
(S.) H. D. HAYES,
U. S. Supervisor of Radio.
onw.
27 Docket No. 835.
Ap. Exhibit 1.
Hart, Dice & Carlson, Official Reporters.
May 20, 1930.
Introduced at Hearing Before Federal Radio Commission.
Federal Radio Commission, Washington, D. C.
Commissioners: C. McK. Saltzman, Chairman; Eugene
O. Sykes, Vice chairman; Ira E. Robinson, Harold A. La-
fount, William D. L. Starbuck. Carl H. Butman, Secre¬
tary.
Address all communications to the secretary.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
21
May 5, 1930.
The KFKB Broadcasting Assn., Inc.,
5th & Barry Sts.,
Milford, Kansas.
I
|
Gentlemen :
There is enclosed herewith official notice of the desig¬
nation of your application for renewal of station license
for hearing.
Reports indicate that station KFKB has not been oper¬
ated so as to adhere to its assigned frequency or within
one-half kilocycle thereof, as required by General Order
No. 7.
Other matters for consideration in this case are reported
broadcasting of indecent and obscene language and false
statements.
The foregoing is not to be considered gs exclusive of
other grounds for the action and eventual decision of the
Commission on said application.
Very truly yours,
FRANK H. LOVETTE,
FRANK H. LOVETTE,
Acting Secretary.
28 Docket No. 835.
Ap. Exhibit 5.
Hart, Dice & Carlson, Official Reporters.
May 20, 1930.
I
[
Introduced at hearing before Federal Radio Commission.
Commissioners: C. MeK. Saltzman, Chairman; Eugene
0. Sykes, Vice Chairman; Ira P. Robinson; Harold A.
Lafount; William D. L. Starbuck. Carl H. Butman, Secre¬
tary.
Address all communications to the Secretary.
i *
22
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Federal Radio Commission, Washington, D. C.
May 14, 1930.
Holland & Strong, Attorneys at Law,
Metropolitan Bank Building,
Washington, D. C.
Gentlemen :
Your letter of May 13th received with regards to broad¬
casting station KFKB of Milford, Kansas, and in reply will
say that it is not the practice of the Commission to sub¬
mit the evidence that will be introduced upon the hearing
of a case.
As specified in Section 11 of the Radio Act, in event of
the Commission not reaching a decision that the public in¬
terest, convenience and necessity would be served by the
renewal of a license it shall grant a hearing and afford the
applicant an opportunity to be heard under such rules and
regulations as it may prescribe. These rules require that
the applicant appear and make a showing as to why its
station license should be renewed and the Commission will
then determine whether the public interest, convenience
and necessity will be best served by the granting of the said
renewal.
You are, therefore, notified to be present on Tuesday,
May 20, 1930, with such information and evidence as you
desire to be heard by the Commission at that time.
Very truly vours,
JAMES W. BALDWIN,
JAMES W. BALDWIN,
Secretary.
29 Docket No. 835.
App. Exhibit 6.
Hart, Dice & Carlson, Official Reporters.
May 20, 1930.
Introduced at hearing before Federal Radio Commission.
May 16, 1930.
Federal Radio Commission,
Washington, D. C.
In re KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc.
Gentlemen :
Re above, under date of May 5th, 1930, your Commis¬
sion issued a formal printed notice that it was not satisfied
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
23
that public interest, convenience or necessity would be
served by granting the application of this station for a re¬
newal of its license and fixing a hearing on said application
for May 20th, 1930 at the office of the Commission, Wash¬
ington, D. C. On the same date, to wit, May 5th, a letter
was addressed to this station referring to the above formal
notice and stating charges as follows:
(а) That the had not been operated as required by general
order #7, in that it had failed to adhere to its assigned fre¬
quency or within one-half kilocycle thereof.
(б) That the station had broadcast indecent language.
( c ) That it had broadcast obscene language.
( d ) That it had broadcast false statements.
There then followed a general statement that the fore¬
going charges should not be considered as exclusive of other
grounds for the action and eventual decision of the Com¬
mission on this station’s application.
To this, we filed on behalf of the station a petition in
which among other things we requested to be advised in ad¬
vance of the hearing as to the nature of the objectionable
matter which it is claimed this station had broadcast, when
the same was broadcast, etc.
Under date of May 10th a letter from your Commission
advised that in its opinion the general statement of charges
already given was sufficient to enable the station to
30 prepare its case, reiterating the statement in the
printed notice of May 5th that the hearing would be
held upon the grounds that the Commissioh is not satisfied
that public interest, convenience or necessity will be served
by continuing the license to this station. This letter fur¬
ther advised “The Commission is not in a position at this
time to submit to you its evidence which will be produced
at the hearing,” etc. We construed the words “at this
time” to indicate that your Commission might be willing to
submit the evidence at some subsequent time, and accord¬
ingly made application for permission to examine the evi¬
dence to be submitted. j
Under date of May 14th the Commission advised by letter
‘ ‘ that it is not the practise of the Commission to submit the
evidence that will be introduced upon the hearing of a
case.” We would not have requested that the evidence be
submitted to us but for what we construed to be the intima-
24
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
tion in the letter of May 10th above referred to that this
evidence might be submitted at a subsequent date.
In this situation, and in order that our client may be in
position to meet the specific charges which we are informed
in your letter of May 5th have been lodged against it, we
now most urgently and respectfully request to be advised
as follows:
(a) As to the indecent language which it is charged has
been broadcast bv this station, and the date or dates on
which the same is claimed to have been broadcast, or in lieu
of the exact date or dates, a general statement as to the
time when it is charged indecent language was broadcast.
( b ) As to the obscene language which it is charged has
been broadcast by this station, and the date or dates on
which the samei is claimed to have been broadcast, or in
lieu of the exact date or dates, a general statement as to the
time when it is charged obscene language was broadcast.
( c ) As to the false statements which it is charged have
been broadcast by this station, and the date or dates on
which the same are claimed to have been broadcast, or in
lieu of the exact date or dates, a general statement as to the
time which it is charged false statements were broad¬
cast.
31 (d) As to the date or dates on which it is charged
that the station failed to adhere to its assigned fre¬
quency or within one-half kilocycle thereof.
That our client and that we as its attorneys are fairly en¬
titled to this information before going into this hearing, we
believe your Commission will concede.
Respectfullv submitted,
HOLLAND & STRONG,
By GEORGE E. STRONG.
GES.-LL.
Rec’d original of foregoing this 16th day of May, 1930.
! GEO. PORTER,
For Secretary, Federal Radio Com.
32 Federal Radio Commission, Washington, D. C.
General Order No. 37.
At a session of the Federal Radio Commission held at its
office, in Washington, D. C., on August 22, 1928.
It is ordered that in every case where the Commission,
upon examination of any application for a construction
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
25
permit, for a station license, for a renewal of a station
license, or for modification of a station license, does not
reach a decision that public interest, convenience or neces¬
sity wor ld be served by the granting of such application.
1. The Secretary of the Commission shall forthwith no¬
tify the applicant to that effect and shall at the same time
notify the applicant of the time and place for a hearing on
such application, the time and place to be fixed as herein¬
after directed.
2. Unless the Commission shall specifically provide other¬
wise, the place for such hearing shall be at (:he office of the
Commission at Washington, D. C.
3. Unless the Commission shall specifically provide other¬
wise, the time for such hearing shall be at the hour of ten
(10) o’clock a. m., on the first Tuesday falling after the
lapse of a period of twenty (20) days from, the date on
which the Secretary shall mail such notification to such ap¬
plicant.
4. No applicant will be heard unless ten (10) days or
more prior to the date set for such hearing, he shall have
communicated to the Secretary a written notice of his de¬
sire to be heard by the Commission, together with a state¬
ment of the approximate time which in his opinion the pres¬
entation of his case will require. Said notice and said
statement may be communicated to the Secretary by tele¬
graph.
33 5. Hearings shall commence at the ljour of ten (10)
o’clock a. m., on Tuesday of each week and shall
continue throughout the week until the cases set for each
Tuesday have all been heard, continued, oit otherwise dis¬
posed of. i
6. Every applicant desiring a continuance of the hearing
on his application shall, not later than the da} 7 prior to that
on which such hearing is set, deliver to the Secretary a
written motion to that effect (which motion may be made
by telegraph) accompanied by a brief statement of his rea¬
sons in support of such motion. Such motion may be
granted or denied by any member of the Commission, or if
none of them is present at the office of the Commission,
then by the Secretary; each action with respect to such
a motion shall be reported to the Commission at its first
meeting following such action.
26 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
7. The Commission may, of its own motion, continue any
hearing to a later date.
8. Every person desiring that witnesses be summoned or
that the production of books, documents, or papers be com¬
pelled shall make written application therefor to the Secre¬
tary on forms to be provided by the Secretary on request.
9. Evidence mav be heard bv anv one or more of the mem-
bers of the Commission. Where a hearing takes place be¬
fore less than a quorum (i. o., three) of the Commission,
the applicant shall, upon request duly made in the record,
be entitled to present argument in support of his applica¬
tion before a quorum of the Commission.
10. Each case will be given a docket number and, so far
as possible, such docket number shall be noted on all cor¬
respondence, papers or motions having to do with such
C&SG.
IEA E. ROBINSON,
Chairman.
34-44 Federal Radio Commission, Washington, D. C.
Docket No. 835. File No. 4-R-B-507.
In re Application of The KFKB Broadcasting Assn. (Sta¬
tion KFKB) for Renewal of License.
Order.
The Commission having considered the evidence and the
arguments presented to it in the above-entitled case, here¬
tofore heard and taken under advisement, and having found
that public interest, convenience or necessity would not be
served by granting said application,
It is ordered that said application be, and the same is
hereby, denied; this order to be effective on June 13, 1930.
Bv order of the Federal Radio Commission.
‘[seal.] By JAMES AV. BALDWIN,
Secretary.
Dated June 13, 1930.
.JWB :VD.
45 Testimony on Behalf of the Applicant.
Frank B. Falknor was called as a witness for and on be¬
half of the applicant and, having been duly sworn, testified
as follows:
27
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
Direct examination.
By Mr. Strong:
46 Q. Based on your experience as a consulting radio
engineer, with other stations, how does this equip¬
ment compare with other high-class stations of the country?
A. Mechanically and electrically it compares very
47-49 favorably with any station in operation.
50 Mr. Strong: I do not know why) we are charged
with being off frequency.
Mr. Fisher: There is no charge of that kind, your Honor.
Mr. Strong: It is not in the case?
Mr. Fisher: No.
Commissioner Robinson: Then vou are
•/
being off frequency.
Mr. Fisher: Not within the license period preceding the
last one.
Commissioner Robinson: So you need not pay any atten¬
tion to that at all.
not charged with
D. D. Denver, Jr., was called as a witness for and on be¬
half of the applicant and, having been duly sworn, testi¬
fied as follows:
Mr. Strong: Do you intend to go back of this license
period into a prior license period in connection with devia¬
tion from frequency?
Commissioner Robinson: We want to know whether un-
" der your last license you violated that license and did not
operate in the public interest.
51-55 Mr. Fisher: Between January 31 and April 30.
Mr. Strong: Do we understand that the charge of
deviation from frequency has been withdrawn?
Mr. Fisher: Yes. There is no proof of it, your Honor.
ft
Direct examination.
By Mr. Strong:
I
Q. State your name. A. D. D. Denver, Jr.
Q. What is your business? A. I am program director
t and assistant business manager of the KFKB Broadcast-
I ing Association, Incorporated, at Milford, Kansas.
Q. Do you — full charge of the programs? A. Yes, sir.
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Do you arrange these programs? A. Yes, sir.
Q. As compared with the license period ending January
31, how have your programs been during the period from
February 1st to date? A. Equal or better.
Q. Will you outline the programs that you have been
broadcasting over this station, giving a typical program?
Commissioner Robinson: Are these programs published
in your local papers?
The Witness: We have no local paper in our city.
Mr. Fisher: Have you any published records of them, or
anything of that kind?
56 By Mr. Strong:
Q. Does mail coming to the station come to your atten¬
tion? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How can you tell whether a program is of interest to
the public or not? A. From the receipt of applause mail.
Q. Do you receive applause mail? A. Thousands and
thousands of letters and cards.
Q. Approximately what would be the extent of the ap¬
plause letters a day? A. Depending entirely upon
weather conditions. In good radio weather, during the
month of January we received more than 3,000 cards and
letters in one dav.
*
Q. During the period from February-
Commissioner Robinson: Right in that connection: do
you make an open solicitation through your transmitter
for applause mail?
The Witness: We do not, excepting in this way. We do
in this way, usually in a feature program or if it is a spon¬
sored program, the majority of sponsored programs where
they want to get in contact with people through their radio
advertising, lots of times in announcements, if they have
something to offer in the way of free literature, and so
forth, theV say, “Cards and letters addressed to this
57 station, KFKB, Milford, Kansas, will bring you
further information.”
By Mr. Strong:
Q. As to the programs by the station, which are not
sponsored, do you solicit applause mail? A. Absolutely
not.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
29
Q. It is with reference to those letters bhat I am par¬
ticularly inquiring. Have you received any numbers of
applause letters of the kind that are not solicited? A.
Will you state that again?
Q. Do you receive any substantial number of applause
letters of the kind that are not solicited by an advertiser
on the station? A. A great number.
Q. Have you ever had a complaint comej to your knowl¬
edge through the mail of any obscene or indecent or false
matter broadcast over this station? A. Absolutely not.
Q. Would it come to your attention if there had been
such complaint? A. It would, sir.
Q. But you have received none? A. Absolutely not.
Q. Have you heard any complaint of any kind about the
programs? A. Suggestions, is all.
Q. You have had suggestions? A. Very few; that is,
friendly suggestions.
Q. What would be the nature of those sugges-
58 tions? A. Well, for instance, once in a while you
find a person that has a particular diking for some
particular feature and they would like to have that feature
represented oftener.
Q. What features, for instance? A. Possibly a dance
band. We have a very good dance band, one of the best
in the Middle West. Possibly letters of criticism come in
because we are not on the air often enough, or things of
that nature.
Q. Let me ask you about Messrs. Hauserman & Cook.
A. They are a harmony team. Mr. Hauserman is a vocal¬
ist and Mr. Cook is a piano-accordionist.
j
Commissioner Robinson: Is it local talent?
The Witness: No, sir. I think Mr. Cook’s home is
somewhere in Missouri. He has been a member of some
of the best bands in the country. He was at our station
for a period of around a month, I think. I
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Approximately at what time would these people
broadcast? A. They are spotted at different times. They
usually come on in the morning for a period and in the
afternoon again. They do not appear in the evening, be¬
cause we are a limited time station.
30 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Who is Dr. John R. Brinkley? A. The chief sur¬
geon of the Brinkley Hospital at Milford, Kansas.
Q. Does he ever broadcast over the station? A. He
does.
59 Q. What is the nature of his broadcast? A. He
gives fraternal talks and gives medical lectures and
he has a feature known as the Medical Question Box.
Q. What is the nature of that? A. Answering letters
of inquiry over the air.
Commissioner Starbuck: How does he answer them ?
The Witness: May I give an illustration?
Commissioner Starbuck: Surely.
Commissioner Robinson: Before you get to that; does
he go on the air and solicit inquiries to him?
The Witness: Directly, no; indirectly, yes.
Bv Mr. Strong:
Q. What do you mean by indirectly? A. For instance,
when his period of broadcasting is completed, quite fre¬
quently the announcer in charge of the station makes the
statement, “Those of you interested in vour health or in
the Medical Question Box as just presented by Dr. Brink-
ley, may address your cards or letters to Dr. Brinkley’s
hospital at Milford, Kansas or to the station.”
Commissioner Robinson: Is it a fact or not that it is his
universal rule to invite questions written in which he will
answer over the air ?
The Witness: He receives thousands of letters without
anv solicitation whatever.
Commissioner Robinson: I know; but does he go on the
air and say, “Submit your questions and I will answer
them in the next broadcast or at some time”?
60 As one Commissioner I want to know this: Is
this station devoted to the medical interests of one
man?
The Witness: Absolutelv not.
Commissioner Robinson: Or is it a general public inter¬
est station? That is the trouble with so many broad¬
casters: they do not understand that this license that is
given them is not for the promotion of their private busi¬
ness, but it is for the public generally. The holder of a
radio license is a trustee.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
31
By Mr. Strong:
Q. How long each day does Dr. Brinkley occupy the
time of the station ? A. At the time I left our city for here
he was allotted three periods of broadcast. He had a
period from 9:30 to 10 o’clock in the morning; 12:30 to 1
o’clock in the afternoon; 2 to 2:30 in the afternoon; and
occasionally his periods were omitted, once in a while.
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. How many hours does your station operate?
The Witness: We come on the air in the morning at 5
o’clock, and as we are a limited time station it depends
upon sunset in Hollywood, California.
Q. How many hours per day? A. Five o’clock—about
151/s hours.
Q. How many of those hours does Dr. Brinkley occupy?
A. Not to exceed one hour and thirty minutes.
61 By Mr. Strong: j
I
Q. Are you on the air continuously from 5 o’clock in the
morning until sundown, California time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you any advertisers that broadcast; over your sta¬
tion? A. Oh, yes; we have numerous advertisers.
Q. How many, approximately ? A. Oh, roughly guessing,
without personally checking it, I would say, 20 or 25 at the
present time. I
Q. Who are some of them? A. The Manhattan Mutual
Life Insurance Company.
Commissioner Robinson: Where is it located?
The Witness: Manhattan, Kansas. We are broadcasting
a service for Montgomery Ward & Company. We have the
Boyd Independent Creamery Company of Creston, Iowa.
Commissioner Robinson: What do you say for Mont¬
gomery Ward—merely that “This is sponsored by Mont¬
gomery Ward & Company”?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: Nothing else?
The Witness: That is all—no prices.
Commissioner Robinson: What do you say for the Cream¬
ery Company?
The Witness: It is just a cooperative creamery giving
suggestions as to how to take care of cream in hot w’eather
32
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
and in cool weather, and giving the price of cream for the
day, the same as you get the Board of Trade grain quota¬
tions.
62 Commissioner Robinson: Do you give any prices
over vour station?
mJ
The Witness: No, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: Or solicit purchases over your
station?
The Witness: No, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: That is all.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Proceed. A. George Porgin, a manufacturer of a
whole wheat breakfast food, a cereal.
Q. Is that a sponsored program? A. A sponsored pro¬
gram.
Commissioner Robinson: Or do you give a whole lot of
time to a discussion and boosting of their wares?
The Witness: Some of these clients—for instance, Mont¬
gomery Ward & Company—their announcement is just
simply introducing their business in a general way; that is,
products that they have-
Commissioner Robinson: You mention Montgomery
Ward & Company’s products, do you?
The Witness: Certain articles; yes, sir.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. What is the length of any of these programs by ad¬
vertisers? What is the maximum length? A. They vary,
depending on their contracts. Some are one minute in
length; some have a sponsored program of 15 to 30 minutes.
Q. But. 1 mean, talk. A. The talks average about
63 iy 2 to 2 minutes, some of them.
Q. Do you have any talks on religious subjects by
ministers of the gospel? A. We do, sir.
Q. Who delivers those talks? A. We have a feature that
has been used on the station on Sunday morning, of religi¬
ous services from 8 to 9 o’clock conducted by the pastor of
the Methodist Church. On Friday afternoon he broadcasts
a 30-minute program presented by members of the Inter¬
national Bible Students’ Association.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
Q. Who is Uncle Bob Larkan? A. An old time fiddler
from Arkansas, one of the best in the South.
Q. Do the people seem to be interested in his programs?
A. Very much.
Q. Does your applause mail so indicate? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who are the Harmony Girls? A. The Harmony Girls
are a couple of singers, harmony singers, from the South,
singing popular songs, mostly—crooners, we call them at
times.
Q. Who is Irish? A. A vocalist. He uses his ukelele for
accompaniment, singing popular songs.
Q. All these people broadcast over the station? A. Yes.
Q. Who is Fenoglio? A. He is a piano-accordion-
64 ist. He is spotted at times. He presents operatic
and classical music and popular selections.
Q. Do you have any orchestras? A. Yes, sir; we have a
concert orchestra.
Q. How many pieces ? A. Ten or eleven men right at the
present time, I could not state which.
Q. Do you know what you pay that orchestra? A. They
average about $50 a week. Possibly the director gets a
little more. j
Commissioner Robinson: Where do you get that talent
in that 300 population town?
The Witness: These men are picked up from all over
the United States, your Honor. They represent some of
the best musical talent that we can get hold of.
By Mr. Strong: |
Q. Are they union men? A. All of them.
Q. Do you have any Hawaiian music? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you have an orchestra? A. We have a dance band;
yes, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: Do you put on any jazz?
The Witness: Oh, yes; twice a day for jaz;z music.
By Mr. Strong: j
Q. How many members of the Hawaiian orchestra? A.
Five, I believe.
65 Q. Did you state how many members there were
of the dance orchestra? A. A ten-piece band, I am
sure.
3—5240a
34
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Who is Dutch and his like ? A. Another vocalist, one
of our popular artists.
Q. Do you broadcast market reports, weather reports
and current news items? A. Yes, at certain periods each
day.
Q. Are all of these people that I have outlined, the or¬
chestras and so forth—do they broadcast each day? A.
Practically so, every day. They are included in part of the
program as regular staff entertainers.
Q. What is the total number of entertainers that are
paid by the station? A. Around 25; possibly a few more
or less.
Q. Does that include your orchestra? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who is Roy Faulkner? A. He is known in radio land
as the singing cowboy, singing old songs of the Range,
which is a very popular feature with a great part of our
audience.
Commissioner Robinson: Did he ever ride a broncho?
The Witness: I don’t believe he ever has. He does not
wear chaps.
Bv Mr. Strong:
Q. Who is Brown? A. An Italian harpist.
Q. Does he broadcast regularly over the station? A.
Yes, sir. He is a very accomplished musician.
66 Q. Who is Mrs. Lee McChesney? A. She is known
as our Tell Me a Story Lady. That is a feature pro¬
gram broadcast for the special benefit of the little folks.
Q. Is that popular? A. It is, very. The applause mail
on that runs verv heavv.
Q. Do you have a dinner hour program around 6 o’clock?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who broadcasts this? A. It is changed each week,
usually. Sometimes it is given by the dance band, some¬
times by the concert orchestra, depending upon what our
schedule calls for.
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. What is your service range during the day with your
5 kilowatts? A. It varies considerably with the weather
conditions, of course.
Q. Are you heard in Nebraska? ■ A. Parts of it.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
35
Q. Oklahoma? A. It is very spotty in Oklahoma.
Q. Are any of your listeners in Colorado? A. Not at
t his time of the year.
Q. Missouri? A. Occasionally. j
Q. Are your listeners mostly in Kansas? A. At this
time of the year.
67 Q. How much of Kansas? A. It is spotted in
parts of Kansas. There are partd of Western
Kansas where I think they get our station very good, but
they have so much interference from other stations.
Q. What counties in Kansas? A. Saline County is one,
about 60 miles from us. We have a lot of interference.
Q. What county is Milford in? A. Geary County.
Q. How far from Saline? A. About fifty miles air line,
or 55 miles.
Q. That is on the Missouri Pacific? A. The Union
Pacific main line to Denver, Colorado.
Q. Just northwest of the center of Kansas? A. You
mean, our county ?
Q. I mean, your town. A. We are located approximately
8 miles, air line, from the geographical center of the United
States.
Q. I mean, the part of the state where iyour listeners
are-
Mr. Strong: He wants to know how near the center of
the State of Kansas vou are located.
The Witness: Just a little north of center. We are
nearer the eastern portion than we are the west by a few
miles.
Commissioner Robinson: Are you directly north of
Hutchinson?
The Witness: Nearly so. I
!
68 By Mr. Strong:
Q. Have you any idea what the cost of operation of this
station is a year? A. It varies, of course, depending-
Q. I mean, for the talent. A. Around $5,000 a month.
Q. $60,000 a year? —. About $60,000 a year.
Commissioner Robinson: I want to ask you a question
right there because I think it is pertinent. What are your
revenues and the sources of them?
36
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
The Witness: We derive a good deal of revenue from
the Brinkley Hospital. It has paid in to the Brinkley
Broadcasting- Association from $5,000 to $7,000 a month
for broadcasting good will programs. There is-also a reve¬
nue derived from the Brinkley Pharmaceutical Association
of cooperating druggists.
Commissioner Robinson: I request on behalf of the Com¬
mission that you file a statement of your outlay and in¬
come, and in this particular case we would like ot know
the source of your revenue.
Mr. Strong: We will be very glad to do that.
By Commissioner Starbuek:
Q. What are these good will programs that are subsi¬
dized by the hospital? A. A program that is a sponsored
program under the heading--
Q. Who gives them? A. I do not quite understand
you.
*
69 Q. What is the nature of them? Are they music?
A. Yes, sir; all music.
Q. What is that pharmaceutical association to which you
referred? A. An association that was founded by Dr.
Brinkley.
Q. Of what is it composed? A. Of druggists through¬
out the State of Kansas and adjoining states that have gone
together to compound prescriptions as prescribed, special
prescriptions.
Q. How do they get to these druggists? A. I suppose
they are sent there by Dr. Brinkley.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. You do not know about that? A. No, sir. It is just
hearsay.
Bv Commissioner Starbuek:
Q. Are they known by name or number ? A. By number.
Q. Do they have any part in this medical question box
that you speak of? A. In a way.
Q. In what way? A. Well, for instance, in this medical
question box, Dr. Brinkley presents that personally and in
it he discusses the health problem of the listeners that write
to him.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
37
Q. Any particular health phases, or just generally? A.
Oh, that is general, general health, and for conditions as
described in their letters. As I have heard him over the
microphone, he suggests to them, as they have described
their case—he would suggest that they go to a
70 competent physician and have a thorbugh physical
examination made; and sometimes I have heard him
offer a special prescription, Number so and so, that would
possibly be of benefit for the condition described in such
and such a letter. These letters come in bv code.
*
Commissioner Robinson: Who has written the prescrip¬
tion? Whose prescription is it?
The Witness: Dr. Brinkley’s, I think.
Bv Commissioner Starbuck:
i
Q. You say they come in by code, A. Yes, sir.
Q. How do they come in by code? A. They just make
their own.
Commissioner Robinson: Is this practicing medicine at
long range, or what do you call it?
The Witness: No; I would not call it that, personally.
Bv Commissioner Starbuck:
*
Q. How is the code known? A. Here is ai letter, for in¬
stance, addressed to Dr. Brinkley at Milford, Kansas,
sometimes in care of the Brinkley Sanitoriiim, sometimes
in care of the hospital. Those that come to the station
are taken care of individually, placed in the doctor’s hands,
and they are disposed of by him over the radio: and in
these letters a lot of these folks—there are probably a lot
that do not want their name mentioned over the air, and
they just have a code letter.
Q. How do they get the code letter? A. They make it
themselves.
Q. If I wrote a letter to him I would say, “In-
71 stead of mentioning my name please mention
“XYZ”? A. Yes, sir.
I
Commissioner Robinson: Does he mention the drug store
to which to go to get the prescription filled?
The Witness: Occasionally, but not very often.
i
38
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
By Commissioner Starbuck:
Q. Does he give the full prescription? A. No; just the
number.
Q. How would they know how to make it up if the patient
did not go to one of the cooperating pharmacists? A. I
do not know how that is done.
Commissioner Robinson: How mam* drug stores are in
this cooperative association?
The Witness: 1 do not know, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: How manv in vour town?
• •
The Witness: We have just one in our city.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Is that drug store connected with the Brinkley Hospi¬
tal? A. No, sir.
Q. Or with the station? A. No, sir.
Q. Or is it connected with Dr. Brinkley? A. No, sir.
Bv Commissioner Starbuck:
Q. Is it one of the cooperative pharmacists? A. I think
it is.
Q. In giving these code numbers, prescription No. so and
so, does he ever mention Milford, Kansas, and say
72 that it will lie sent bv mail? A. I have never heard
him do so; no, sir.
Commissioner Starbuck: That is all.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Do you know whether or not these druggists who fill
the prescriptions pay any money to Dr. Brinkley or to the
station ? A. I think-
Q. I asked you if you knew. A. No; 1 do not know for
sure; no, sir.
Q. Do you know who keeps the books of the station? A.
Mr. Howard Hale Wilson is the secretary-treasurer.
Q. Have you lived in Kansas all your life? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you lived in Milford, Kansas, all your life? A.
Outside of the time I was in France and in Denver, Colo¬
rado—I went to school in Denver, Colorado back in 1910, I
think it was.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
39
Q. You were in France in what capacity? A. In Uncle
Sam’s army, in the World War.
Q. Are you in anyway connected with the Army at the
present time? A. I am a Reserve Officer, Signal Corps.
Q. You have heard a number of Dr. Brinkley’s lectures
and the question box? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you ever heard anything obscene or indecent?
A. Absolutely not.
73 Q. Or false or that you considered false or fraudu¬
lent ? A. Absolutely not.
Q. What are the conditions out in Kansas during rainy
or stormy weather with regard to the roads? A. Well, we
have very poor road conditions there; that is, in most parts
of the state.
Q. Are there many concrete roads in the $tate? A. Very
few. !
Q. What is the condition of the roads there during stormy
weather? A. Nearly impassable, sometimes; from snow and
rain and other climatic conditions.
Q. Do you know whether or not there are doctors in every
town in the state ? A. Oh, no. They have lots of towns that
do not have doctors in.
Q. Were you there in Milford when Dr. Brinkley first
came there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there a period when there was no doctor in Mil¬
ford? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know whether or not the people there made
efforts to obtain a doctor? A. Yes, sir; they - advertised for
one, as I remember it.
Q. Did Dr. Brinkley come there in response to that
74 advertisement? A. Yes, sir; he has told me so.
Q. Have you ever known doctors to prescribe over
the telephone? A. Oh, yes.
Q. Have you ever had occasion in your own experience to
get a prescription over the telephone from a doctor? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. If doctors make a call out in the country or in a town
in which they do not live, do they charge mileage?
Mr. Fisher: We object, if the Commission please, as being
incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial.
Commissioner Starbuck: Ruling reserved.
The Witness: They charge them something—I suppose
they do.
40
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Commissioner Starbuck: But do you know?
The Witness: Well, yes; I would say so.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Has there been a popularity contest of any kind con¬
ducted by any radio magazine among the stations of the
country? A. The Radio Digest at Chicago, one of the
wmrld’s most popular radio magazine, to the listeners, con¬
ducted an event each year, an annual affair, awarding a
cup to the station selected by the listening audience, leaving
it to them, as to which is the world’s most popular radio
station.
Q. Was there one conducted this year? A. There was.
Q. Do you know when it began? A. I think it be-
75 gan last fall some time. It was over a period of six
months.
Q. When did it close? A. June-
Q. I mean, when did the contest close? A. It closed—
what month is this?
Q. May. A. It is not June yet. It must have been closed
in March, 1930,1 believe.
Q. What, if any, connection did the Brinkley station have
in that contest? Was it in that contest? A. We were, sir.
Q. Did it win any award in that contest? A. Yes, sir; we
were awarded a gold cup in this contest.
Q. What did that signify? A. It signified that according
to the listening audience we were the most popular station
in radio land, by a vote of about four and a half to one.
Q. Do you know how many votes were given to the sta¬
tion? A. I think we received a trifle over 258,000, as I re¬
member.
Q. Is that cup you have there the cup that was awarded?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. W’as that vote in excess of 250,000 the vote that went
to Station KFKB ? A. It was.
Q. That was not the total vote cast? A. No; that
76 was for our station. I forget how many stations
were entered. There was a great number.
Q. In connection with that popularity contest did you
solicit votes over the station? A. No, sir.
Q. What was your procedure? How did you bring it to
the attention of the listeners? A. We brought it to the at¬
tention of the listeners like this. This contest was under
41
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION,
way for approximately two or three months before we knew
anything about it. It was called to our attention by some
one visiting the studio one day who wanted to know why we
did not enter the contest. So a magazine was given to us
and we noticed therein that we had been entered in the con¬
test, that we had quite a few votes absolutely unknown to us.
So after that when the Radio Digest came out—which is
issued each month—we took the Radio Digest and made one
announcement, probably once a week, to this effect:
“We notice in the Radio Digest that they are staging
a contest for the world’s most popular station to decide
which is the most popular station in radio, and we suggest
that every one vote for their most popular station.”
No one was ever invited or asked to vote for KFKB, but
it was suggested that they vote for the most popular station.
Q. A moment ago you testified that under present condi¬
tions it was hard to hear this station in parts of western
Kansas? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is that true in winter conditions? A. Yes; it
77 is true at all times, because of interference from
other stations. j
Q. Can your station be heard with or without interfer :
ence from other stations in western Kansas? A. In parts
of it. In other parts of it it cannot.
Q. In what parts can it not be heard, if you know, just
judging from the applause mail? A. There is a very big
scope of territory in western Kansas.
Q. You can be heard in Salina? A. Yes. There are
times that they get interference from other stations, even
in Salina.
Q. Do you know whether or not this station has com¬
plained of interference from other stations? A. No. We
receive letters like this-
Q. I mean, whether this station has complained to the
Commission of interference by other stations. A. I think
we have.
Q. Do you have the gold cup before you that was
awarded Station KFKB by the Radio Digest as being the
most popular station for 1930? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is that it there (indicating) ? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What does it state on the cup?
42
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Mr. Fisher: We object, upon the ground that it is in¬
competent, irrelevant and immaterial, not having any bear¬
ing upon this case.
Commissioner Starbuck: Ruling reserved.
78 By Mr. Strong:
Q. Will you read what is on the cup? A. (Reading:)
“1930. Radio Digest Award to KFKB, World’s Most
Popular Radio Station.”
Q. I will ask you to look at these and see if you can iden¬
tify them (handing photographs to witness). A. Yes, sir.
Q. What do they represent? A. These are photographs
of portions of our studios and transmitting equipment and
operating room at the station.
Mr. Strong: We offer them in evidence.
Mr. Fisher: No objection.
(The photographs referred to, showing views of por¬
tions of the studios, transmitting equipment and operating
room of Station KFKB, were collectively marked “Appli¬
cant’s Exhibit No, 11.”)
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Who is James O. Weldon? A. He is the chief engi¬
neer of radio station KFKB.
Q. Is that (indicating) his signature? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You are acquainted with it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know who Calvin Miller is? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who is he? A. He is one of our radio operators.
Mr. Strong: They state in these affidavits who they are,
and I will ask that the affidavits be marked for identifica¬
tion.
(The affidavit of James 0. Weldon, dated May 16,
79 1930, was thereupon marked “Applicant’s Exhibit
No. 12.”
The affidavit of Calvin J. Miller, dated May 14,1930, was
thereupon marked “Applicant’s Exhibit No. 13.”
The affidavit of Earl L. Eggers, dated May 14, 1930, was
thereupon marked “Applicant’s Exhibit No. 14.”)
Mr. Strong: That is all.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
43
Examination on behalf of the Commission.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Are you D. D. Denver, Senior or Junior? A. D. D.
Denver, Junior.
Q. How long have you been business manager and pro¬
gram announcer, Mr. Denver? A. I have been with the
station since 1923, the fall of 1923.
Q. Have you had charge of the programs during that
time and are you familiar with the information that is
being broadcast over the station and have you been present
on many occasions during that time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Of course you are relieved at certain times as an¬
nouncer? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many announcers have you, by the way? A.
We have two regular and have other substitutes that we use
occasionally as circumstances warrant.
Q. Then you are familiar with the prbgrams that are
being sent over that station? A. Yes, sir.
80 Q. And the type of information that is sent out?
A. Yes, sir.
0. You say your applause mail comes by the thousand
sometimes. What is the average number of letters that
your applause mail carried throughout tbe license period
that we have referred to here, since January 30? A.
From January 30 to May 1st?
Q. Yes. A. I could not state just what it would aver¬
age. !
Q. Several hundred, I suppose? A. Oh, yes; several
hundred.
Q. You say that the station has not made any request
for those applause letters from the listening public? A.
Only as I have stated.
Q. Has the station done it or has Mr. Brinkley asked for
responses? A. No; there has never been any request for
responses.
Q. Are you familiar with an occasion about a month ago
when several hundred letters were sent to the Commission
I
and was not that done in response to a request of Dr. Brink-
ley stating that there were certain interests that were in¬
vestigating him before the Commission t A. Not to my
knowledge.
44
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. You did not hear Dr. Brinkley or any one else ask the
public to send letters to the Commission? A. I never,
heard of it.
81 Q. You never knew that the Commission received
several hundred letters and telegrams about a month
ago? Do you remember that occasion?
Mr. Strong: How is that material to this matter, whether
the Commission received telegrams?
Mr. Fisher: That is in response to his reply that they
did not ask for letters at anv time.
Mr. Strong: He says he did not. I object to your bring¬
ing in this irrelevant and immaterial matter as to whether
letters or telegrams have come to the Commission about
this station.
Mr. Fisher: I think we have a right on cross examina¬
tion, your Honor, to bring out the fact that these letters
were sent to the Commission that they have stated did not
happen-
Mr. Strong: He said he does not know.
Mr. Fisher: If he knows.
Commissioner Robinson: Read the question.
(The pending question was read by the reporter as above
recorded.)
Mr. Strong: That is what I object to.
Commissioner Robinson: Let him answer. This Com¬
mission must give attention to complaints from the public.
It only represents the public.
Mr. Fisher: These were not complaints, your Honor.
These were letters in response to Dr. Brinkley’s request
that they send letters to the Radio Commission.
Mr. Strong: We object to that. That is not in evidence
here that Dr. Brinkley requested them.
82 Commissioner Robinson: The Commission decides
upon the sworn testimony of witnesses, not upon
statements of either counsel for the licensee or for the
Commission.
Answer the question.
The Witness: Read the question, please.
(The pending question was again read by the reporter
as above recorded.)
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION. 45
The Witness: No.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. You were not present, then, when Dr. Brinkley or
any one else asked over Station KFKB to send these
letters in? A. No, sir; I never heard hiih broadcast it.
■ i
Commissioner Robinson: You are referring to letters of
commendation? |
The Witness: Yes, sir. |
Commission Robinson: That is quite as pertinent as
complaints. It is proper for him to answer.
I
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. You say you have never heard of any complaints re¬
garding Station KFKB, Mr. Denver? A. In what way do
you refer to?
Q. The question was asked whether you heard of any
complaints against the station, and youb answer was no.
A. That is, in regard to interference?
Q. Any kind of complaints about matter being broad¬
cast over the station. Have you heard of any? A. No,
not in our applause mail.
Q. Have you heard of any complaint by the Amer-
83 ican Medical Association? A. I have heard some¬
thing about the American Medical Association; yes,
sir.
Mr. Strong: But did it come to the station?
The Witness: No. j
Mr. Strong: He wants to know aboulj; complaints that
come to the station. j
Mr. Fisher: I want to know as to any complaints.
The Witness: There has been nothing come to the sta¬
tion from the American Medical Association.
Bv Mr. Fisher:
Q. You have heard of those complaints? A. Through
the newspapers; yes, sir.
Q. And Dr. Brinkley referred to those complaints over
the Radio station, did he not, on several occasions? A. I
heard Dr. Briuklev refer to one newspaper at one time.
46 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Did he ever refer to the American Medical Associa¬
tion? A. I have heard him use that name; yes.
Q. What newspaper was that that he referred to ? A. If
I remember right, it was the Kansas City Star.
Q. This question box that Dr. Brinkley carries on through
the station: how often is that broadcast and at what times?
A. Do you care if I present it at length?
Q. No. A. The question box was inaugurated some time
last fall, if I remember. At that time Dr. Brinkley
84 was given thirty minutes on the air which he had
from 9:30 to 10 o ’clock in the morning. The inquiries
and letters asking for information and advice increased so
tremendously that it was found necessary, in order to com¬
ply with a part of them, to give him another thirty minute
period on the station which was assigned to him in the
afternoon, I believe, around 2:30, until the volume became
so great that it was necessary to give him another 30-minute
period; and until recently he was using three periods a day
of thirty minutes each, approximately, over the station.
Q. Then he lias been using an hour and a half over that
station for this question box alone in the recent months
of the operation of the station? A. Yes, sir.
Bv Commissioner Robinson:
Q. What does he get out of it? Is it a private interest
or a public interest ? Answer that fully. A. Dr. Brinkley
does not get anything out of it that I know of.
Q. Does not the station pay him as it would any other
performer? A. Yes; he gets a salary from the association.
I do not know just what his salary is. I know he gets a
check everv two weeks.
Commissioner Starbuck: What association?
The Witness: The KFKB Broadcasting Association.
Commissioner Robinson: I want the financial statement
to show that in detail.
85 By Mr. Fisher:
Q. He gets a check as a performer on the station ? A. I do
not know what it is for; but that is my information, that he
is paid for his services.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
47
Q. Those times that he broadcasts over it are under the
direction and control of the KFKB Broadcasting Associa¬
tion, Inc.? A. I suppose so.
Q. At least part of the time? A. Yes.
Q. At other times he is broadcasting for his hospital for
which there is a remuneration that comes to the Broadcast¬
ing Corporation; is that right ? A. No. He gets remunera¬
tion from-
Mr. Strong: Not he. The question was with regard to
the corporation. Does the corporation get remuneration
from the hospital?
The Witness: Yes.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Is not this for Dr. Brinkley’s use over the radio sta¬
tion? A. It is for the broadcasting of good will programs.
Q. Good will programs for the hospital? A. For the
broadcasting of good will programs.
Q. For the Brinkley Hospital? They pay for it, do they
not? A. I suppose. I don’t see the checks.
Q. His is the only voice that goes on the air for
86 them, is it not? A. He presents the ;Medical Ques¬
tion Box.
Q. That is what I mean.
Mr. Strong: He asked you if Dr. Brinkley’s was the only
voice that went on the air for the hospital.
The Witness: No.
Commissioner Robinson: Is he the only medical man who
goes on the station? Do other doctors also use it?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. From his hospital, though? A. Yes.
By Commissioner Starbuck:
Q. Let me get this straight. There is this question box
which takes an hour and a half a day? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How much each day is Dr. Brinkley on? A. That is
the time allotted to him in answering these questions.
Q. In the Question Box? A. Yes, up until recently.
48 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. You testified he was on an hour and a half total for
the Question Box? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is that all the time he is on at any time? A. It varies.
There are times when possibly he will go on and give a
medical lecture.
Q. For whom does he give that? A. That is just a lec¬
ture of general interest and enlightenment to the
87 listeners.
Q. Is he paid for that? A. I do not know.
Commissioner Robinson: In that lecture does he adver¬
tise any particular prescription by any particular number
or any particular drug store?
The Witness: No, sir.
Commissioner Starbuck: Does he refer to the sanitorium?
The Witness: No, sir.
Bv Mr. Fisher:
Q. In his Question Box he refers to this prescription
sometimes, does he not? A. Yes.
Mr. Strong: You want to distinguish between the Ques¬
tion Box and his lectures. A member of the Commission
asked as to whether in his lectures he refers to the hospital
—'not in the question box, but in the lecture. Does he or
does he not refer to the hospital in his lectures?
The Witness: Refer to it in just what way do you mean?
Commissioner Starbuck: Any way.
The Witness: Yes.
Commissioner Robinson: Does he recommend the hos¬
pital?
The Witness: Indirectly.
Commissioner Starbuck: But he does recommend it,
either directly or indirectly?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: How different are these
88 lectures from those of Senator Royal S. Copeland?
The Witness: A lot of them right along the same
line, interesting things in medical science and along the
lines of scientific research.
Commissioner Starbuck: In what way would he refer
directly or indirectly to the sanitorium?
The Witness: He would refer to the sanitorium directly
or indirectly, to the literature that is sent through the mails.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
49
Commissioner Starbuek: By whom?
The Witness: By the Brinkley Hospital.
Commissioner Starbuek: They send medical information
through the mails?
The Witness: Medical literature yes.
Commissioner Starbuek: To whom?
The Witness: To persons writing for it.
Commissioner Starbuek: Is that part of the Question
Box, the names being gotten through the Question Box?
The Witness: No, sir.
Commissioner Starbuek: How do they get those names?
The Witness: Through the medical lectures.
Commissioner Starbuek: Does he request replies in his
medical lectures?
The Witness: When I said “indirectly”^ it was meant
like this. Some of his lectures are concluded with remarks
something like this:
“Those of you that are interested in your health and
would like medical literature that will reveal a lot of things
to you concerning your most valued possession, your
89 health, it will be mailed to you upon request by writ¬
ing to the Brinkley Hospital or in care of this sta¬
tion.”
examines thou-
Commissioner Starbuek: The question of health is a
rather broad one. How do they know what to send any
given person?
The Witness: The literature is just of a general nature.
It discusses diagnosis and prognosis.
Commissioner Robinson: What disease does this hospital
specialize in?
The Witness: It is a general hospital that
sands of people for everything, but their specialty is pros¬
tate gland trouble.
Commissioner Robinson: That is what I want to get at,
because it has been represented to the Commission that it
is a species of rejuvenation by the goat gland process. We
might as well get right down to that.
Mr. Fisher: Is Dr. Brinkley going to be put on?
Mr. Strong: We have other witnesses better qualified
than this gentleman.
4—5240a
50
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Commissioner Robinson: This is an intelligent witness,
and I want to know what he has observed.
Commissioner Starbuck: He has charge of the programs ?
Mr. Strong: Yes, sir.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Just what is broadcast with regard to that particular
matter? A. Lectures on disease and along scientific lines,
scientific research. Sometimes part of the lecture is taken
in discussing important topics as they happen.
90 Q. Is there any appeal made to come to this hos¬
pital for this particular purpose, or anything like
that? A. No, sir; absolutely not.
Q. He just mentions that he is in that business and carry¬
ing on that kind of a hospital for those kinds of operations?
A. Those operations are seldom mentioned.
Commissioner Starbuck: Are they referred to?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
Mr. Strong: Have you ever heard any one broadcasting
over Station KFKB make any promise of rejuvenation to
anv one?
*
The Witness: Absolutely not.
Mr. Strong: Or even mention it?
The Witness: It never has been mentioned.
Mr. Strong: Have you ever heard them mention goat
glands over the radio?
The Witness: I do not believe I have.
Commissioner Robinson: It is reported to the Commis¬
sion that he owns a goat farm. Is that true?
The Witness: No; I don’t think it is a goat farm.
Commissioner Robinson: What is it? Let us be en¬
lightened fully.
Commissioner Starbuck: Has he any goats?
The Witness: These goats come from the State of Ar¬
kansas, these goats that are used in part of the work.
Commissioner Starbuck: What does he do with the
goats ?
The Witness: Thev are used-
•/
91 Mr. Strong: Do you know what he does with those
goats of your own knowledge?
The Witness: No, sir.
Mr. Strong:: He says. no.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
51
Commissioner Robinson: What does he represent about
them ? Does he speak of them over the radio ?
Understand me, Mr. Strong: I am not deciding this case
at this time, and I do not know but what he may, under the
law, with the inhibition on us as to censorship, have a right
to do so. But I want all the facts before uS for our de¬
cision. I do not know how far the inhibition against cen¬
sorship will go in this case.
What does he say about the goat gland process over the
radio? I
The Witness: The goats are never mentioned over the
radio, to my knowledge.
Commissioner Robinson: What does he say about the
goat gland rejuvenation?
The Witness: That is never mentioned over the radio.
Commissioner Starbuek: Where does he keep these
goats ? 4
The Witness: In the town.
Commissioner Starbuek: Have you seen them?
The Witness: Oh, yes. j
Commissioner Starbuek: About how many would you
say he has? !
The Witness: My time prohibits my getting down in
that part of the country very much.
Commissioner Starbuek: Is it five or five hundred?
The Witness: I would say on the average of
92 about 20 or 25 a week, normally.
Commissioner Starbuek: You meah, that many
come in?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: I want to know if this is a pub¬
lic service station or if it is a mere private enterprise.
The Witness: I think that would depend, sir-
Commissioner Starbuek: Do vou know of vour own
» I *
knowledge whether those goats have anv relation to the
sanitarium or to Dr. Brinkley’s practice?
Mr. Strong: I object to that question.
Commissioner Starbuek: I am asking for his own knowl¬
edge. He can sav ves or no.
* •
Mr. Strong: I want to note an objection to this kind of
questions. As I interpret the law, this Commission has no
power of censorship. The operations of the Brinkley Hos¬
pital, how they function, have no relation to this matter
52 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
unless these particular operations are referred to over the
radio and unless the matter of the goats is mentioned over
the radio.
The Witness has testified that the matter of goats is not
mentioned; that the matter of sex rejuvenation is not men¬
tioned over the radio; and I want to narrow this hearing
as much as I can, so I want to note that objection and I
want it to stand as to all questions of that kind.
Commissioner Robinson: It would seem that the witness
is not at all injuring your cause. As I have said, he is an
intelligent witness in charge, in a sense, of the sta-
93 tion. But the main question in the mind of this par¬
ticular Commissioner—and I have some different
ideas from some of mv brothers—is whether or not this is
a private station, a private money-making station or a sta¬
tion in behalf of the listeners? Let us find out whether it
is a private enterprise or not.
Commissioner Starbuck: Have you ever heard the Doc¬
tor mention glandular or polyglandular solution over the
radio ?
The Witness: No, sir.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Have you ever heard him talk about this particular
kind of operation that he carries on? A. I have heard him
refer to his compound operation.
Q. That is what he refers to it as? A. Four-phase, com¬
pound operation; yes, sir.
Q. That is what he refers to when he talks about this
kind of an operation in the Brinkley Hospital? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Strong: What kind of an operation?
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Do you know what that means? Does he ever explain
it over the radio? A. No, sir; it is never explained over
the radio.
Q. With regard to the time that the Doctor puts in on
this station, I believe you testified he has three half-hour
periods, 9:30 to 10, 12:30 to 1 and 2 to 2:30. When was it
that he was putting in just that much time? A. That is
just of recent date.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
53
94 Q. As a mater of fact, does he not putj in a lot more
time than that over the station? A. No, sir, not per¬
sonally.
Q. On April 13 on one of these programs that has been
submitted it says ‘ ‘ 7:45 to 8:15, Dr. Brinkleyj in a Masonic
or Bible Talk.” A. That is on Sunday evening.
Q. Is not that in addition to these other periods? A.
Yes; that is on Sundays. I forgot to mention that.
Q. Here is one on April 7. That would not be Sunday.
That would be Monday if April 13 was on Sunday. It says,
“ 7:45 to 8:15, lecture prepared by Dr. Brinkley, read by
announcer. ’ ’
That is in addition to the time that he actually spends on
the radio? A. Yes.
Commissioner Robinson: What is that lecture, Bible or
Medicine or Masonic?
The Witness: Those are usually of a medical nature.
Mr. Brown: Do you keep copies of those lectures?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
Mr. Brown: You have them in the files of your station?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: Let them be submitted.
By Mr. Fisher:
j
Q. Again, on April 7, which would be on Mondey, there
is, from 5 to 5:30, a lecture (medical) to be read by
95 announcer; and it says, ‘ ‘ This lecture written by Dr.
Brinkley.” Is that in addition to hi^ regular hour
and a half? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And again, from 6 to 6:30, April 7, 1930, “Lecture to
be read by announcer (this lecture written by Dr. Brink-
lev).” A. Yes, sir.
Q. So there are various other lectures of his that are read
by the announcer and prepared by the Doctor in addition to
the number of hours he puts in on the station!? A. Yes, sir.
Those are medical lectures.
Q. Yes, but they are prepared by him, and probably he
is given credit for them over the station. Do you not tell
who prepared them? His name is mentioned in connection
with the giving of these lectures, is it not? A. Sometimes,
and sometimes not.
54 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. They are of a medical nature, and the announcer would
not be supposed to be a doctor, and he probably does men¬
tion them-
Mr. Strong: That is an inference or statement of counsel.
Mr. Fisher: I will put it this way: Do you in reading
these lectures announce that Dr. Brinkley prepai'ed them?
The Witness: Sometimes.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. How are they announced when you do not? A. Some¬
times like this:
“At this time a medical lecture of an interesting
96 nature will be broadcast.”
Those medical lectures that are broadcast are
given by Dr. Brinkley and occasionally they are repeated to
the station by the announcer.
Q. Do you have a number of them on hand that you can
refer to when the program is lagging or apparently slack?
A. No, sir. Those are given at stated times.
Q. In this program, .just as a matter of record—I know
the records will show—do you broadcast any phonograph
records? A. No, sir.
Q. 1 notice that there are not any here. A. The only
records we broadcast are on a sponsored program—electri¬
cal transcription.
Q. For some one? A. Yes, sir.
Q. In regard to the income of the station, is not practi¬
cally all of the income derived from the Brinkley Hospital
and the Brinkley Pharmaceutical Association? A. No, sir.
Q. What proportion of it is derived from that source?
A. I do not know just what the proportion is, but we have
quite a little from our advertisers.
Q. Approximately what is your income a month? We will
get that in the statement, and I 'will only refer to it briefly.
A. Not having given it any thought, I could not tell
97 you right offhand.
Q. But you said that from $5,000 to $7,000 a month
income is derived from the Brinkley Hospital? Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know approximately the amount that is de¬
rived from the Brinkley Pharmaceutical Association? A.
I think it has been running around $5,000 a month.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
55
Q. Then between the two you derive approximately $10,-
000 to $12,000 per month. A. Yes, sir.
Q. This payment from the Pharmaceutical Association is
by reason of the fact that these druggists secure these pre¬
scriptions from people that have heard over the broadcast¬
ing station ! I
Mr. Strong: Wait a minute. Do you know that!
The Witness: No; I do not know that.
i
Bv Mr. Fisher:
Q. Does the Pharmaceutical Association or Dr. Brinkley
notify them over the station to get prescription No. so and
so! Is not that the way they get those prescriptions! A.
Some are gotten that way. Just how do you want that!
Will you repeat the question!
Q. Just inform the Commission on the matter of filling of
prescriptions from the advertising over the radio. A. I
will answer that question in this way. The Pharmaceutical
Associations that were formed have, as I understand
98 it, a list of prescriptions—I think there are about 36
or 37 special prescriptions-
Q. Prepared by Dr. Brinkley! A. Yes, sir.
Q. And numbered! A. They are numbered. They go to
these cooperating drug stores; and they are alluded to in
this way. In his Question Box when some one writes in de¬
scribing symptoms in the letter, telling where their hurts
and pains are, Dr. Brinkley, in answering, says something
like this, giving the code number:
“Your letter of such and such date is here before me”—
then describing her condition as she has described it—“I
would think that from the conditions that you have de¬
scribed you need a thorough physical check-up to see cer¬
tainly what you condition is.”
Or possibly her condition may be stated in her letter.
It may be such a plain thing that he would suggest using a
certain prescription number for her condition.
Commissioner Starbuck: Does he say where it can be ob¬
tained!
Mr. Fisher: Those prescriptions can only be obtained
from the members of this pharmaceutical association!
The Witness: As I understand.
56
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. He does not give the names of those, you said—or
sometimes he does and sometimes he does not? A. Yes;
sometimes he does—you mean, the names of the prescrip¬
tion or the number?
99 Q. No; the members of the Association from whom
the patient can get the prescription. A. It is hardly
ever mentioned.
Q. Sometimes? A. Sometimes.
Q. About how many members, if you know, are there in
that association of druggists? I suppose there are several
hundred? A. I could not answer that question.
Mr. Strong: We will put that in evidence.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. How much of the program, in your judgment, would
you say was taken up with regard to this question box and
the answering of questions and referring to these pre¬
scriptions? Is that an hour and a half a day? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How much of the program is taken up in regard to
what service can be secured from the hospital, the Brinkley
Hospital?
Mr. Strong: We object to that. If you want to ask him
what the total time taken up in medical subjects on the
air is-
Mr. Fisher: No; I am getting at the matter of adver¬
tising. There should not be any objection to that.
Mr. Strong: I do not understand that he testified that
they advertised the hospital over the air.
Mr. Fisher: That is what I am asking right now, if any
time is taken up in announcing with regard to the hospital
and the kind of operation that you refer to being
100 carried on there.
The Witness: Only in the concluding remarks of
the medical lecture.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. How much of the time is taken up in medical lectures
each day? A. There are three 30-minute periods.
Q. The same as the Question Box period, or three others ?
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION. 57
I
A. Three 30-minute periods; but speaking of the Brinkley
Hospital it is possibly a minute.
Q. But it is in the sponsored program, or the 30-minute
period? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are these three periods in addition to the three peri¬
ods that you have referred to as the Question Box periods ?
A. Yes, sir. i .
Q. Approximately three hours a day is taken up in spon¬
sored programs for these two causes? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Out of 12 or 14 hours? A. Fifteen and a half.
Q. Also the station does secure letters from various
patrons that have heard the radio talks and they forward
them on to Dr. Brinkley? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do either his hospital or his- A, They come in
care of the hospital or the station. Some do not get
101 the call letters.
Q. But if they come in care of the station they
are referred to Dr. Brinkley? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Just one other word w T ith regard to your program,
Mr. Denver. I notice from this that you do not sponsor
any chain programs? A. No, sir.
Q. You are not on either of the chains? A. No, sir,
neither the Columbia nor the N. B. C.
|
Q. With regard to the ownership of this station, are you
a stockholder of the station? A. No, sir.
Q. D. D. Denver, Senior—is that your father? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Is he the owner of a hundred shares? A. I do not
know what he owns.
Q. You are not familiar with that? A. No, sir.
Q. You operated this station when Dr. Brinkley owned
it alone, did you not? A. Yes, sir. I was connected with it.
Q. Do you remember when he transferred it to the cor¬
poration? Do you remember when that was? A. No, sir.
It has been a while back.
!
Q. Last November, was it not, 1929? A. I could not
say. It has been a while back.
Q. It was the end of last year, as far as you can
102 remember, was it not? A. Some time during last
year.
Q. Up to that time was Dr. Brinkley directly in charge
of you and the entire operation of the station?
58 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Mr. Strong: I object to that. I do not see how it is
material.
Mr. Fisher: It is .just preliminary, connecting up the
ownership at this time and the control of the station.
Mr. Strong: But he has stated he did not know anything
about it.
Mr. Fisher: He ought to.
Commissioner Robinson: Read the question.
(The pending question was read by the reporter as above
recorded.)
Commissioner Robinson: Let him answer it and see
where it leads. Mr. Fisher says he will connect it.
The Witness: I could not say. I received my orders from
the manager.
Bv Mr. Fisher:
Q. Was the manager under Dr. Brinkley?
Mr. Strong: If you know that.
A. 1 don’t know that for sure. Perhaps he was.
Bv Mr. Fisher:
•f
Q. Don’t you know of your own knowledge that Dr.
Brinkley was the owner of this station until some time in
1929?
Mr. Strong: We will concede that.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. But you do not know that of your own knowledge?
A. Just how do you mean that, again, please?
103 Q. Understand, I am not trying to trick you; I
just wanted to get the facts with regard to the owner¬
ship. The assignment was last November, and before that
time the license went to Dr. Brinkley, and I assumed that
you, as an employee, must have known who your boss was.
A. The license was held by Dr. Brinkley.
Q. Was he the owner of the station? A. As far as I
know. I suppose he was.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
59
Commissioner Robinson: Is he the owner now by reason
of stock ownership? I notice he owns only a few shares.
Evidently his wife owns the bulk of the stock.
Mr. Fisher: No; that does not appear, ybur Honor.
Mr. Brown: Is M. T. Brinkley Dr. Brinkley’s wife?
The Witness: Yes.
Mr. Brown: She owns 381 shares.
Mr. Strong: That is out of a thousand. That is not
a majority of the stock.
!
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Does Dr. Brinkley still have control of the station and
its management? A. No, sir; not altogether; no, sir.
Q. Is he on the board of directors?
Mr. Strong: If you know about these matters, testify;
if not-
Mr. Fisher: You are one of the employees, an announcer,
and get your salary from the Broadcasting Corporation?
The Witness: Yes; program director and announcer.
By Mr. Fisher:
J
Q. In regard to that cup: do you know how many
104 stations were in this contest, Mr. Denver? A. I
think I can tell you if I may look at the Radio Digest.
Q. Just refer to it, please, and see approximately how
manv were in it.
Commissioner Starbuck: Does that give the total vote
as well?
The Witness: It possibly does.
Mr. Strong: The details of this contest are going to be
set forth in the June issue.
Mr. Fisher: I thought maybe he knew approximately
how many stations were in it.
Commissioner Robinson: Speaking for myself, a thing
of that kind involves so many elements that it is almost
impossible to analyze. Frankly, I doubt whether I would
give any more credence to that than I would to the Liter¬
ary Digest’s poll on prohibition.
Mr. Strong: A lot of people have given Credence to that.
The Witness: It does not appear in this issue.
60 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Bv Mr. Fisher:
*
Q. As a matter of fact, are not the votes always based
on a proposition of a subscription to the Radio Digest?
You had to subscribe to the Radio Digest to vote that way?
A. You get your copy from the news stand, and there is a
vote entitling you to five ballots.
Q. You did not subscribe to the magazine in order
105 to vote? A. You can.
Q. Is it not compulsory that you do subscribe? A.
No; you can purchase it from a news stand and each issue
has a coupon.
Commissioner Starbuck: You could not vote without
having a coupon?
The Witness: No, sir.
Commissioner Starbuck: But you do not have to sub¬
scribe ?
The Witness: No, sir.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. You do not know how many stations out of 650 were
in it? A. If I were to guess I would say that there were
two thirds of them.
Q. But you do not know? A. I do not know for a cer¬
tainty. I know that the best and most well thought of
stations were in the contest.
Q. For the first month or two you did not know about
the contest, and then when you did you urged that they
vote for the most popular station, which I presume all
of them did? A. Yes.
Commissioner Robinson: What section of the country
was embraced?
Mr. Fisher. He was asked that and said he did not
know.
The Witness: It is over a half.
Mr. Strong: It was a national contest, was it not ?
106 The Witness: A world contest.
Commissioner Robinson: Was WLS in it?
The Witness: Yes, sir; and WENR.
Commissioner Starbuck: In regard to this contest, did
you say anything over the air about the number of votes?
The Witness: Calling attention to the coupon.
61
FEDERAL* RADIO COMMISSIONS
i
Commissioner Starbuck: Did you quote the value of
them?
The Witness: I told them that if they had a copy of the
Radio Digest they would find in there a coupon that would
entitle them to case five votes for their mbst popular sta¬
tion.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. Mr. Denver, you submited here Exhibit No. 9 which
states:
“The following is a good synopsis of the Sunday pro¬
gram as delivered at Station KFKB, the bne stated below
as an excerpt of the one given Sunday, April 13,1930.”
This is not, then, the actual program; it states that it is
a synopsis of the program ? A. I could not tell you offhand.
The only change that would be in that would be in the
event that some artist on account of sicknfess, right at the
last minute, didn’t show up and some one else would be
inserted in his place.
Commissioner Starbuck: As I understand it, vou are
7 V
going to submit the actual program?
Mr. Strong: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Starbuck: And they will give not only the
substance, but they will be accurate?
Mr. Strong: Yes, sir.
107 Mr. Brown: Do you have a rate card with you ?
Mr. Strong: If you do not have, we will submit it.
Mr. Brown: I would like to ask some questions with ref¬
erence to it if vou have one here.
Mr. Strong: I have never seen it.
Bv Mr. Brown: i
Q. How do you determine the rates to be charged to
people who want to go on the air? A. Our rates are
standard rates as prescribed by being a member of the
National Association of Broadcasters.
Mr. Strong: Are your rates the same as those of the
National Association of Broadcasters?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
62
Ki’KB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Bv Mr. Brown:
Q. l)o you receive more or less than the stanadrd rate
from the Brinkley hospital? A. I could not answer that
question, to make it specific.
Q. You are not able to answer the question? A. No, sir.
In fact, I have never figured the time. The time that these
good will programs are broadcast the Brinkley Hospital
pays to the Association between five and seven thousand
dollars each month. Occasionally there is one section of
the Question Box that would be omitted due to the absence
of Dr. Brinklev.
Q. How is it determined how much the Brinkley Hos¬
pital shall turn over to the station? You say it is between
five and seven thousand dollars; it varies somewhat ?
A. Yes, sir.
108 Q. How do they determine the amount that should
be turned over ? A. That is done bv the secretarv-
Q. Who is he ? A. Mr. Wilson.
Q. He would have that information? A. Yes, sir: he
would have that information, sir.
Q. And I assume that he would have information with
respect to the Pharmaceutical Association? A. I would
suppose so; yes, sir.
Q. As to the amount they would turn over? A. Yes.
Mr. Strong: We will present evidence along that line.
Mr. Brown: Before the case has terminated?
Mr. Strong: Yes, sir.
Bv Mr. Brown:
Q. I notice on the program that you give 15 minutes a
day to market reports. Where do you get them? A.
Those market reports come from the Kansas City Live
Stock Exchange and the Kansas City Board of Trade, Ex¬
change Building.
Q. You have stated that the population of Milford is
about three hundred. A. Three hundred or 350.
Q. And that Dr. Brinkley came there in response to nu
advertisement that the inhabitants of the place needed a
doctor ? A. Yes, sir.
I
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
63
Q. In what newspaper, if any, was this advertise-
109 ment inserted? A. I wouldn’t say for sure, but I
believe it was the Kansas City Star, if I remember
rightly.
Q. How far is Kansas City from Milford? A. A hun¬
dred and fifty miles by rail; less by air line,
Q. How far is Junction City from Milford? A. Twelve
miles—thirteen miles by railroad and about 12 by wagon
road, I believe.
Q. What is the population of Junction City? A.
Around six or seven thousand.
Q. Have you and idea at all of the population that is in
the service area, or the approximate population in the
service area of Station KFKB? A. No, sir:
Q. You have never heard that discussed? A. No, sir
Q. Does your station keep a record of the questions that
are propounded to Dr. Brinkley and the answers he makes
to them? A. Of late, yes, sir.
Q. Over what period of time? A. I couldn’t tell you
just exactly what period—within the last five or six weeks,
or two months, or something like that.
Mr. Brown: If the Commission should desire that, you
can furnish it, can you not—a record of the questions and
answers ?
Mr. Strong: We can.
110 Mr. Brown: And also a record of the lectures?
Mr. Strong: We cannot furnish the questions.
We can furnish the answers, but not the questions, because
they come in by telegram and letter, thousands and thou¬
sands of them, and they are not retained.
Mr. Brown: You can furnish the answers but not the
questions ? I
Mr. Holland: The questions are not broadcast.
Mr. Brown: Thev are identfied bv the code number?
Mr. Strong: Yes.
Mr. Brown: You keep a record of the lectures that are
given by Dr. Brinkley?
The Witness: They are not numbered.
Mr. Strong: We have said we would produce those.
Mr. Ralston: You have heard Dr. Brinkley prescribe
over the radio?
The Witness: In what way?
64 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Mr. Ralston; You have testified that he prescribed for
his patients over the radio?
Mr. Strong: Before he answers that question, I would
like to ask who this gentleman is and what position he
occupies and whom he represents, in connection with the
Commission, and by what right he is asking these ques¬
tions.
Commissioner Robinson: I assume that he is an Am¬
erican citizen, and to my mind any member of the public
who may be interested in any license may approve our
grant or protest against it. But you may answer the
question.
Mr. Ralston: You testified-
111 Mr. Strong: No. I want you to answer my ques¬
tion.
Mr. Ralston: Excuse me. I thought you waived that.
Mr. Strong: That is not my understanding.
Commissioner Robinson: We always listen to any mem¬
ber of the public. It is well enough to be identified for the
record, of course.
Mr. Ralston: My name is W. C. Ralston, and I am the
Assistant Attorney General of the State of Kansas, and I
represent the Attorney General’s office at this hearing.
Complaint has been made against Dr. Brinkley to the State
Medical Board of Kansas, for the revocation of his certifi¬
cate to practice medicine and surgery in that state. The
Attorney General’s office is interested in that complaint,
and so I am here representing that office, and I think I can
be of some help to the Commission in this matter.
Mr. Strong: You are a listener of this station, or at least
are within listening range?
Mr. Ralston: Yes, but I never listen to it. I live at
Topeka, Kansas.
Commissioner Starbuck: You are, in effect, representing
the State of Kansas?
Mr. Ralston: Yes, sir.
Mr. Strong: Are you here in opposition to the renewal
of license to Station KFKB? Is that your position?
Mr. Ralston: I am here to help the Commission in getting
information in regard to this station.
Commissioner Robinson: You may cross examine.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
65
Mr. Holland: I want to make a further objection here,
because the Assistant Attorney General of the great
112 State of Kansas is here representing the Attorney
General’s office in connection with the proceeding
brought in the State of Kansas which questions Dr. Brink¬
ley’s right to practice medicine.
If the gentleman is here on a fishing expedition in order
to get some information here which he can carry back to
Kansas and use there in connection with representing what
he conceives at least to be the rights of the State of Kansas
in that proceeding, then I respectfully submit that he is
here without any right at all.
If he comes here simply as an American citizen trying to
assist this Commission in ascertaining the facts—and that
is what we are all here for, because there are no facts which
we are trying to cover up at all—then I submit that he is
here attempting to use the Commission for a purpose for
which the Commission was never intended. I assume that
the Attorney General’s office is able to handle this matter
in the State of Kansas, but this Commission has nothing
whatever to do with that.
If the gentleman is here simply to disclose the facts so
far as he can before this Commission, then as a citizen I
would not have any objection. But if he is here to cross-
examine witnesses and endeavor to pick up material to take
back to use in a matter which is exclusively within the State
of Kansas, then I submit that he has no right to ask any
questions at all.
Commissioner Robinson: He will be permitted to cross
examine on those things which are within thfe issue before
this Commission, and not as to the Kansas board, of
113 course. We are trying our case. Out there they may
try theirs. But the State of Kansas is interested, in
a sense, because under the Davis Amendment Kansas is en¬
titled to a particular quota of broadcasting facilities, a por¬
tion of which is taken by this station. He may support it
or otherwise. He has already announced that he is appear¬
ing for the purpose of aiding the Commission in the issues
we have before us.
We will ask you to suspend, now, and the Commission
will recess until 2:30 o’clock.
5—5240a
66
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
(Whereupon, at 12:45 o’clock p. m., a recess was taken
until 2:30 o’clock p. m.)
114 After Recess.
The hearing was resumed at the expiration of the recess.
Commissioner Robinson (presiding): We will proceed
with the case on hearing. Mr. Ralston was next in order.
Mr. Ralston: I will ask the reporter to strike out the
question that I propounded, and I will start afresh.
D. D. Denver, Jr., the witness under examination at the
taking of recess, resumed the stand and, having been pre-
viouslv dulv sworn, testified further as follows:
* /
Cross-examination (resumed).
Bv Mr. Ralston:
Q. Does Dr. Brinkley prescribe medicine over the i-adio?
A. He prescribes prescriptions.
Q. How does he designate the prescriptions? A. By
number.
Q. How many does he give to one patient? A. Oh, it
varies. Usually a lot of them receive none, and some receive
one and some of them more.
Q. Some of them two and some three and some four at the
same time ? A. I never heard of that many. I have heard of
two.
Q. You stated that Dr. Brinkley received an income of
about $5,000 a month from the druggists who fill these pre¬
scriptions ? A. That is what I have been told; yes, sir.
115 Mr. Strong: I object to his testifying to what he
has been told. If he knows that of his own knowledge
he can testify to it. If he does not, it is clearly hearsay.
Bv Mr. Ralston:
Q. Do you know that of your own knowledge ? A. I do not;
no, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: That may be excluded if he does
not know it of his own knowledge.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
67
By Mr. Ralston:
Q. How much study does Dr. Brinkley give to these lec¬
tures that are sent in to him describing the ailments of his
patients? A. I don’t know.
Q. You have no idea how these druggists
convey their
money to Dr. Brinkley? A. No, sir; I don’t know.
Q. Whether they are paid a commission, or how’? A. No,
sir.
Q. I believe you stated that he advised his patients over
the radio to have an examination made of their condition?
A. Some of them.
Q. Does he advise most of them to have that done? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And who does he suggest should make that examina¬
tion? A. Go to your own doctor or select a doctor that is
competent.
Q. Have you ever heard him ridicule doctors over
116 the radio? A. No, I have not, only—pjust what do
you mean by that ? What do vou mean bv the word
‘ ‘ ridicule ” ? j
Q. Make fun of them; tell the patients that they do not
know anything; that they are no good? A. No; I have
heard him say that in his opinion a patient was receiving
the wrong kind of treatment, in his opinion, j
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. Would this station permit that other school of medi¬
cine which he disagrees with to have that service?
Mr. Strong: Wait a minute. There is no evidence that he
disagrees with any school of medicine, and 1 object to the
question.
Commissioner Robinson: It seems that he is not the
owner of the station. Will this station permit any other
member of the medical profession to put his medical views
on this transmitter?
The Witness: I have never approached him on that sub¬
ject.
Commissioner Robinson: Have they applied?
The Witness: Not to my knowledge.
Commissioner Robinson: Suppose they did apply and
would pay the rate: what would be the policy of the station
ownership ?
68 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
The Witness: It would come before the board of advisers
for its disposition.
Commissioner Robinson: Who is on that board?
The Witness: They have a board of directors, busi-
117 ness manager, the secretary-treasurer, myself; and
the stockholders have a voice.
Commissioner Robinson: Has anybody else a right to
speak over that station, any other member of the public,
paying the price, that Dr. Brinkley has?
The Witness: I do not understand your question.
Commissioner Robinson: I say, has any other member of
the public, one of the owners of the medium of the air, the
same right to put some medical thought over the transmit¬
ter of your station, even though it may be different from
Dr. Brinklev’s?
The Witness: Absolutely.
Commissioner Robinson: That would be your policy ?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
By Mr. Ralston:
Q. Does Dr. Brinkley ask his hearers over the radio to
write in and tell him of their ailments? A. No, sir.
Q. Do a great many write in and ask him what is the mat¬
ter with them and what should be done, and so forth? A.
Thousands of letters are received in that way.
Q. But he never asks them to write letters describing
their ailments at all? A. No, sir.
Q. Does he suggest in his question box that he will send
pamphlets and books to them if they want them? A. In his
medical lectures.
Q. What are some of those pamphlets and books that he
sends to them? A. He has a blue book called “Your
118 Health”; and he has another booklet the title of
which is “The Story of Paw and Maw.”
Commissioner Robinson: What kind of a story is that?
The Witness: It is a human interest story.
Commissioner Robinson: How, human?
The Witness: It is an interest story, a story pertaining
to the lines of good health.
Commissioner Robinson: In regard to the sex relation?
The Witness: Not necessarily.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
69
Commissioner Robinson: I know, not necessarily; but
does it have that reflex or complex?
The Witness: I would say no.
Commissioner Robinson: May we have & copy of that
booklet? I
Mr. Strong: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: Let it be filed.
Mr. Strong: We will submit it if it is not here already.
By Mr. Ralston:
Q. Let me ask you if this (handing the witness a pam¬
phlet) is one of the pamphlets or books thait Dr. Brinkley
sends out to his patients. A. Yes, sir; I would say it is.
'
Mr. Ralston: I offer that in evidence.
Commissioner Robinson: Let it be admitted.
119 (The pamphlet referred to, entitled “Your
Health”, was thereupon marked “Kansas Exhibit
No. 1.”)
By Mr. Ralston: I
Q. I will ask you if that is one of the pamphlets that Dr.
Brinkley sends out to his patients. A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ralston: I offer it in evidence, if the Commission
please.
Commissioner Robinson: Admitted.
(The document referred to, entitled, “Lecture Given by
Dr. Brinkley Mav 28, 1929,” was marked “Kansas Ex¬
hibit No. 2.”) |
Commissioner Robinson: I want it brought out in the
record who mails those out.
The Witness: They are mailed out froni the Brinkley
Hospital.
Commissioner Robinson: How is the mailing of them
inaugurated? By this broadcasting and then a solicitation
that they write in for them?
The Witness: In the medical lectures, as explained this
morning, they are concluded with remarks something like
this:
70
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
“All those that are interested in good health, we have
literature pertaining to your health, and if you are in¬
terested and would like to read it we will be glad to mail
it to you.”
That is incorporated as the concluding announcement in
the majority of the medical lectures by Dr. Brinkley.
Commissioner Robinson: But the station does not
120 mail them out?
The Witness: No, sir.
Mr. Ralston: I would like to read just a small portion of
this pamphlet. It is entitled “Lecture given by Dr. Brink-
ley May 28, 1929. Stones in the kidney and enlargement
of the prostate gland. Compliments of the Brinkley Hos¬
pital established 1917, Milford, Geary County, Kansas.
“You are listening to Dr. Brinkley speaking to you from
the hospital at Milford, Kansas, over station KFKB.
*******
“Now then: I have presented to you facts from our best
medical authorities during the past eight months, showing
you that the concensus of medical opinion is that 65 per
cent of the men of this country suffer from prostate gland
enlargement. I have presented further evidence to you
from the great medical authorities that 20 per cent of the
men who suffer from enlarged prostate gland suffer from
cancer of the prostate gland, and 15 per cent of the pros¬
tate glands are tuberculous.
“Now 20 per cent means twenty men out of every hun¬
dred, and 15 per cent means 15 men out of every hundred,
so you see the ratio is quite high.
*******
“This information is reliable and trustworthy. When
we tell you that we can prevent the removal of the pros¬
tate gland by this simple operation we are telling you a
fact, and when we tell you that when you fool around with
medicine and massage and such treatments they will ulti¬
mately cause your prostate to be removed, we are telling
you the truth.
“Now is it not safer and saner on your part as a
man to take off from your work a few days, say five
121
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
71
or ten days and come here for this operation? Our
patients are operated on on Monday and are able to leave
the next Saturday or Sunday for their respective homes.
“You spend a week with us and have something done for
you that is going to keep you out of a lot of trouble in years
to come. We have demonstrated this in our hospital so
many times that it is not even necessary to discuss the
matter so far as dependability is concerned.
“This talk is given especially to those who have been
told that the only relief for an enlarged prostate was mas¬
sage or to take it out. That is just as bad advice as a man
can receive. I can assure vou if vou will act before the
* V ,
prostate becomes too large its removal will never become
necessary.
“However, if you stay away from us until the prostate
has become so enlarged that its removal is necessary—
then we can’t do anything for you but take it out. We are
trying to reach you before this stage. This information is
given to you in all sincerity, and I can assure you that if
taken in time, we can prevent the removal of your prostate
gland.
“This is Dr. Brinkley speaking to you from the hospital
at Milford, Kansas, and those of you who listen to my talk
and would like to know how easy it is to save your prostate,
to prevent its removal, and will wrote to station KFKB,
to the hospital at Milford, Kansas, or to Dr. Brinkley at
Milford, Kansas, and state your age, occupation,
122 how long you have been suffering from prostate
trouble, what treatments you have taken, and your
present condition of health,—we will write you a personal
letter of advice.
“In addition we will send you our booklet YOUR
HEALTH, containing some pertinent facts and good ad¬
vice as to how to maintain your health. It is a booklet
that is worth thousands of dollars to you if you will pay
attention to the advice therein.
“We will also send you the story of Paw j and Maw, which
is the story of the Prostate man from beginning to end.”
Mr. Trimmer: Let us have the rest of it
Mr. Strong: You have just read extracts,
rest of it.
Read the
i
72
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Mr. Ralston (reading): “We will also inclose a reprint
from a medical journal giving the unusual symptoms of the
prostate gland. This will show you how prostate gland
enlargement appears in many phases, and yet, when we
recite the many symptoms of enlargement of the prostate,
we do not mention nearly all of them because the symptoms
of the enlarged prostate are legion.
“I hope you have been able to hear us and will benefit
by the advice given. This series of lectures will be con¬
tinued for just a few days yet, after which they will be con¬
cluded for the summer.
“Tomorrow evening I will speak to you at 8:30—possibly
beginning my talk at 8:20. ’ ’
Bv Mr. Ralston:
♦
Q. Now I will hand you this document entitled
123 “Life”, and ask you if that is one of the pamphlets
that Dr. Brinkley sends out to his patients. A. I
have never seen this document; never have seen that docu¬
ment.
Mr. Ralston: This document has at the bottom of the
front page the words “Compliments of the Brinkley Hos¬
pital, Milford, Kansas”, and I would like to offer it in
evidence.
Mr. Strong: We object.
Commissioner Robinson: Just wait, Mr. Strong.
When you connect it with this radio station, you may
offer it. It must be connected with the service of the sta¬
tion, first. If the distribution of it is solicited over this
station, very well. It is not in evidence yet.
Mr. Ralston: It is signed by J. R. Brinkley, M. D., Mil¬
ford, Kansas, 1928.
Commissioner Robinson: Yes; but he might be merely
mailing that or distributing it by hand. If this station aids
in the distribution of it, we will receive it. The Commis¬
sion is interested onlv in the service of the station.
*
By Mr. Ralston:
Q. How many votes did the Brinkley station get in the
world popularity contest? A. Something close to 260,000,
or a little under that.
Q. Where did those votes come from? A. Where?
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
73
Q. Yes. A. From listeners.
Q. From what part of the country? A. All over
124 the country.
Q. All over the United States? A. I don’t know
about that—different states.
Q. Did you not testify this morning that your radio did
not reach out beyond the State of Kansas? A. No; I said,
without interference; that we were bothered with a lot of
interference within 60 miles of where our transmitter sits.
Q. These 258,000 votes did not come within 60 miles of
Milford, did they? A. Any radio reception, you under¬
stand, is spotty. There are parts of the country where we
get real well, and then you will skip a place, and then have
good reception.
Q. You spoke about Dr. Brinkley’s compound operation.
What is that? A. I never had that; I couldn’t tell you.
Q. You do not know about that? A. I know it is a
wonderful thing.
Q. How do you know that? A. From the thousands of
men I have talked to. It is blood reduction to the prostate
gland that forever prevents its removal.
Q. Does it have anything to do with goat glands? A. I
don’t know.
Q. Did you ever take any of Dr. Brinkley’s medicine?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What prescription did you take? A. I took part of
a bottle of No. 50.
Commissioner Robinson: Were yoii solicited over
125 this station to do so?
The Witness: No, sir.
Bv Mr. Ralston: j
Q. I believe you stated that Dr. Brinkley gives fraternal
talks over the radio. What are those like? A. His fra¬
ternal talks are usually discussing Masonry, Masonic sub¬
jects.
Q. Does he discuss anything else besides jMasonry? A.
Masonic talks and religious talks. I
Q. I believe that is all. i
The Witness: It might be mentioned that on special oc¬
casions he gives talks concerning the American Legion
74 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
with reference to Veterans of Foreign Wars at appropriate
times.
Q. Does he give many of these religious talks himself,
or are most of them given by ministers? A. He talks each
Sunday afternoon at 2 o’clock.
Mr. Ralston: That is all.
By Mr. Brown:
V
Q. You stated, I believe, that you are the program di¬
rector of this station? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What are your duties as program director ? A. I am
given talent to arrange suitable programs, interesting pro¬
grams for. They are scheduled usually for one week, and
then there is a change of program each week, depending
entirely upon the number of new clients that we may pos¬
sibly get in an advertising way.
Q. Your program beginning April 7, 1930, from
126 5 to 5:30 a. m., is a “lecture (medical) to be read by
announcer. (This lecture written by Dr. Brinkley.) ”
Does the station receive any revenue from that ? A. I don’t
know anything about that.
Q. From 5:30 to 6, old time violin music by Uncle Bob
Larkan. Does the station receive any revenue from that?
A. I don’t know about that.
Q. Who sponsors that program, if any one? A. I don’t
know.
Q. From 6 to 6:30 is another lecture written by Dr.
Brinkley. From 6:30 to 6:45, popular music by the Har¬
mony Girls, soloists. Is that sponsored by any one? A.
I don’t know.
Q. Do you know whether the station receives any revenue
from it? A. I don’t know, sir.
Q. Then dropping down a bit, from 8 to 8:30 is a lecture
by Professor Gaston Bert. Who is Professor Gaston Bert?
A. An instructor in foreign languages.
Q. Where from? A. I don’t know, but I have been told
that he is from the University Clevia.
Q. It states that he lectures in different languages,
French, Spanish and Italian, delivered on different sub-
FEDERAL, RADIO COMMISSION. I 75
i
jects, literature, art, music and medicinal subjects. Is be
a physician? A. I think he is an M. J).
127 Q. Have you ever heard his lecture? A. Not be¬
ing familiar with a foreign tongue, I could not tell.
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. You are a citizen of the State of Kansbs? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many French, Spanish or Italian speaking people
have you in that state? A. I could not tell you right off¬
hand, but we have a number of French and Italian, more,
I believe, than we have of Spanish. We have a number
of French and Italian speaking people in the State of
Kansas. j
By Mr. Brown:
Q. Within the service area of the station at Milford?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You have heard Professor Bert lecture in some for¬
eign language that you did not understand? A. Yes, sir—
only as I was told by him what language it was.
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. Does your station require, before permitting that
lecture, a filing of a translation to show what he is saying
to these foreign-speaking and foreign-understanding peo¬
ple? In other words, do you know what is going out to
this foreign language population?
The Witness: Just a summary by him as to what the
contents of it are. He speaks English, and I ask him what
the nature of his talk is.
128 Commissioner Robinson: Do you take his word?
Do you not require translation ? He might be start¬
ing a revolution against the American Government.
The Witness: I had never thought of it in that light.
Commissioner Robinson: He might be : advocating the
Soviet form of Government.
The Witness: Well, your Honor, from the applause that
he receives—and he receives a wonderful lot of applause
on his foreign language talks-
Commissioner Robinson: I am told that the anarchistic
and communistic sentiment would receive a great deal of
applause. It might be that unless you look into it.
76
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. Is this applause that he receives written in French,
Spanish and Italian? A. Some of it; and some of it not.
Q. You do not know whether it is applause or otherwise,
do you? A. I know it is applause, some of it.
Q. How do you know that? A. Because on their own card
they say they read and write French, for instance.
Q. Can you read it and tell whether they are applauding?
A. They write it in the English language.
Q. They translate it for you? A. Yes, sir; part of it.
Q. On the same day, April 7, from 5:45 to 6 o’clock, “The
Tell Me a Story Lady, Mrs. Lee McChesney.” Does
129 the station derive any revenue from that? A. I don’t
know.
Q. Do you know whether or not they pay Mrs. McChes¬
ney? A. I don’t know for a fact, sir.
Q. Who would have that information with respect to your
program; that is, the revenues that are received from it
or the amounts paid for the talent? A. Mr. Howard Wilson,
business manager and secretary-treasurer.
Q. And he is not here? A. No, sir.
Mr. Brown: That is all.
Mr. Strong: We are going to submit that.
Mr. Brown: I would like to have a chance to ask about
some of these in detail. I have a reason for wanting to go
into this rather in detail.
Redirect examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. These medical lectures—are they popular? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Is there any demand for them? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How do you know that? A. By mail—thousands of
letters.
Q. What about the question box? Is there any demand
for that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Any interest in it? A. One of the most popular
130 features we have.
Q. With reference to your policies, have you ever
had any criticism of a program, even preceding the present
license period or the past license period—adverse criticism,
I mean? A. No.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
77
Q. Was there not a sponsored program last summer of
some kind that they complained had too much talk in it, or
something like that? A. Yes; we had a sponsored program,
sir—I don’t just recall the name of it. But I would like to
say-
Q. I just want to ask you this. Did you discontinue that?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long was that program on? A. Probably just a
few days or a week or ten days.
Q. What was the nature of it? A. Some kind of an ap¬
paratus to better radio reception; some kind of a device to
go into a radio receiving set—a static eliminator, I believe
it was called. We had received reports that it was fraudu¬
lent and immediately discontinued it and canceled our con¬
tract.
Q. With regard to reception in your service area, when
this station is not broadcasting during the daytime can you
hear Station KNX of Hollywood? A. No, sir.
Q. What stations can you hear during the daytime? A.
At this time of year?
131 Q. Yes. A. You would probably be able to get
good reception from KSAC.
Q. That is the Manhattan Agricultural College? A. Yes,
sir. WIBW, the Topeka station, most times, unless static
is bad. If there is a bad electrical storm you cannot get
Senator Capper’s station at Topeka.
Q. What other stations? A. That is about all we can
get in the daytime.
Q. Does the Topeka station broadcast cha,in programs?
A. I think they are on the Columbia chain.
Mr. Strong: I think that is all.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. In Professor Bert’s program from 8 to 8:30—does he
prepare that himself? A. I don’t know, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: What I want to know is this.
He speaks on literature, art, music and medicinal subjects.
Is that Dr. Brinkley’s same line in foreign languages?
A. I don’t know, sir. When Professor Bert, who is not
at the station now—he is away, but when he is on the air
he just comes to me and tells me when I introduce him on
the air—or the other announcer—he is introduced as Pro¬
fessor Bert speaking in whatever tongue he is speaking in.
/8 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Commissioner Robinson: But you do not understand
those languages and you do not know what he talks about
and you do not know what the listener is getting, do you?
The Witness: No, sir.
132 By Mr. Brown:
Q. And there is no one else at the station, so far as you
know, who knows what he is putting on the air? A. Not
to my knowledge.
Commissioner Robinson: From the program, it seems
to be medical. We may assume that it is not contrary to
Ur. Brinkley’s medical preachments, may we not?
The Witness: I do not know about that, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: Is this station a mere adjunct
of this medical school or sanatorium ?
Mr. Strong: I object to that, your Honor.
Commissioner Robinson: That is the issue here, Mr.
Strong.
Mr. Strong: There is no proof that this is a medical
school.
Commissioner Robinson: 1 mean, a school of thought.
Mr. Strong: There is no proof of that, that I have heard.
Commissioner Robinson: Is it a mere adjunct to Dr.
Brinkley’s practice and his hospital, or is it a real public
service radio station?
I am speaking merely as one of the Commissioners, but
that seems to me to be the question. Can we afford a wave
length to the great sanatorium at Battle Creek, to Dr. Kel¬
logg? I do not know what this case may be, and I am not
making any reflections upon the applicant here at all, but
I do not want to get to the issue. Can we give Battle Creek
a wave length merely for the purpose of enhancing the
revenues of that sanatarium? It is interesting to any of
us who have patronized it, yes. But is that the real
133 use of a wave length for the American people?
Those are questions and not decisions.
The Witness: Your Honor, permit me to state that if
KFKB is taken off the air there are thousands and thou¬
sands of people that would miss it and would be unable to
get the features that they are entitled to over the air.
Commissioner Robinson: Does this station ever give the
people in Kansas a history of the foundation of Kansas,
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
79
of the pre-Civil War days that brought it .into being, and
its relations to the slavery question?
The Witness: That has been incorporated in talks that
have been broadcast in days gone by.
Commissioner Robinson: Has it ever mentioned a gov¬
ernor of that state by the name of Robinson?;
The Witness: Not to my recollection.
Commissioner Robinson: Or the early history of Kan¬
sas and its aspirations for the upbuilding of the American
Union? In other words, does it give to the citizenship of
Kansas an inspiration for good government and for the
maintenance of our republic?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: Or is it all a particular
thought of healing?
The Witness: Speaking personally, it renders a service
to thousands and thousands of people in that area that—
personally I am in a position and have had experience
enough to know what programs are required bv the aver¬
age listener, the kind of program that a family will enjoy
sitting down and listening to, in addition to the fea-
134 tures that are broadcast to keep you enlightened, as
to weather forecasts, live stock markets, and so
forth.
Commissioner Robinson: Does it give a variegated
service, or is it merely Dr. Brinkley and his hospital? Has
it ever claimed John Brown as a Kansan?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
By Mr. Strong:
j
Q. What public men have ever spoken over that station ?
A. The big men in the State of Kansas.
Q. Name some of them. A. Governor Reed.
Q. Who else? A. William A. Smith, National Repub¬
lican Committeeman—I don’t remember the|names.
Q. Has Vice President Curtis ever spokeii over it? A.
Yes, sir; and Congressman Strong. Dr. Fishbein has
never spoken over it, to my knowledge.
Q. A number of years ago did not the Kansas State Agri¬
cultural College make use of the station? A. Yes; before
KSAC was given a license to operate, we broadcast the
School of the Air for them for approximately two years.
80 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
a very interesting program, two hours, I think, each eve¬
ning. That was appreciated by the public.
Q. Do you ever let any people interested in public health
broadcast over the station? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you ever had any Sunday School conferences
broadcast? A. Dr. Greaves speaks over the station
155 every quarter. He is the head of some conference in
the State of Kansas—Methodist, I believe it is.
Those are usuallv on Sundavs.
%/ *
Q. Do the International Bible Students use it? A. Yes,
once a week. We also broadcast Swedish services from
one of the biggest musical schools in the West. We also
use talent from that school. Some of the professors have
spoken over that station in lectures.
Commissioner Robinson: How much agriculture do you
put on?
The Witness : It varies. I would say, on the average,
features that are of interest to the person engaged in the
pursuit of agriculture, around three or four hours.
Commissioner Robinson: Practically all of Kansas is
engaged in that pursuit, is it not?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: What is the proportion of
agriculture to healing through Dr. Brinkley’s ideas, that
this station puts on?
The Witness: I could not tell you, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: Half and half? Here is a
great body of listeners who are rural or agricultural lis¬
teners interested in making a living from the soil. That
is their main interest. Do you give them as much of their
interest as you do Dr. Brinkley’s interest? I still have in
mind the issue of whether this is a public service sta¬
tion—
136 By Mr. Strong:
Q. Do you make any attempt to find what the public is
interested in? A. No direct attempt is made.
Q. Have you ever sent out a broadcast for them to write
in and tell you what kind of programs they would like?
A. Not of recent date. We have done that several times.
Q. What was the last date, approximtaely ? A. Oh, some
time in—I think it was a little after the first of the year,
January or February or somewhere along in there.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
81
Q. Do you remember what the consensus of opinion was
of the people? A. At that time they were asked to give
expressions as to the kind of entertainment or features
that they enjoyed most and what they demanded of a broad¬
caster to give service as demanded by the public.
Q. What was the general result of the replies? A. The
majority of them commented on the programs as broad¬
cast, and in addition to complimenting the artists—because
we have good talent—in addition to that, the medical ques¬
tion box and Dr. Brinkely’s medical, fraternal and religious
lectures were of paramount importance to the most of those
people in our area.
Commissioner Robinson: What is the proportion of his
religious talks to his medical talks? One half or one tenth
or ninety per cent, or what?
The Witness: Dr.- Brinkley personally speaks once a
week, ordinarily, unless there is some special occa-
137 sion, with a religious talk.
Commissioner Robinson: And everv dav of the
* *
week in medical talks ?
i
The Witness: Medical lines or along the lines of scien¬
tific thought. You understand, speaking of religion. In
keeping our programs varied and giving the listeners what
we think they appreciate more, we have other religious
programs that are broadcast, as Mr. Strong just mentioned.
Bv Mr. Brown:
W
Q. On your program of April 7, 1930, 14:45 to 5 p. m.,
“The Singing Cowboy, Roy Faulkner”—is that sponsored
by some one? A. I don’t know.
Q. Who do you see with reference to making arrange¬
ments for that program to go on? A- The business
manager and secretarv-treasurer.
Commissioner Robinson: Is he here?
The Witness: No, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: Whv not?
%
Mr. Strong: We had to leave some one
the station. Mr. Wilson was not able to come.
there to operate
6—5240a
82
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Bv Mr. Brown:
Q. Does Faulkner just come to the station and put his
show on? You are there as the manager, are you not? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Who sends him there ? A. The business manager.
Q. You have been there since 1923 and you do not
138 know a thing about who sponsors Faulkner if he is
sponsored? A. I know in a way, and in a way I do
not know.
Q. Let us hear in the way in which you know. A. No.
I told vou I didn’t know, and if I would tell you I would be
speaking from hearsay.
Q. From 5 o’clock to 5:15, “Late Vocal Numbers by the
McRee Sisters.” How many of those McKee sisters are
there? A. Two.
Q. Who sends them to the studio? A. The manager.
Q. The manager sends them? A. Yes.
Q. You do not know whether they are sponsored by any
one or not ? A. No, sir.
Q. You have no idea at all how they get there? A. No,
sir.
Q. 5:30 to 5:45. “Steve Love and Arthur Pizinger’s
Orchestras alternating in Popular and Classic Musical
Numbers, with Occasional Solos by Irish, Dutch or Faulk¬
ner.” Who sponsors that? A. I don’t know.
Q. They are just sent to you by the business manager
and you put them on? A. The personnel is given me for
my disposition in presenting a program.
Mr. Brown: That is all.
139 By Mr. Ralston:
Q. What public health official has spoken over the Brink-
lev radio? A. Sir?
Q. You testified that some public health officials had
spoken over the Brinkley radio. Can you name some of
them. A. Some doctor from Topeka, I think. This was
about a year or a year and a half ago. He dropped in to
visit us one evening and just dropped in and made a few
remarks.
Q. Is there any other public health official besides this
Topeka doctor who has spoken over that radio? A. I would
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
83
not make this statement for certain, but I think the public
health nurse cooperating with the public health service
in Junction City, Kansas, has spoken over the station.
Q. You are not sure of that? A. No, sir; I am not sure
of it.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Strong: I want to introduce some affidavits, now,
your Honor. First, the affidavit of James 0. Weldon. He
is the radio engineer of the station. He states that he is
25 years of age; married; has resided in the community
since employment as radio engineer for station KFKB;
has been employed at said station as radio engineer since
January 19, 1929. He tells of the equipment and appa¬
ratus for radio broadcasting:
“(1) A complete speech input system, which is a
140 standard Western Electric 8-B system, using West¬
ern Electric and Jenkins and Adair condenser trans¬
mitters or microphones, the approximate cost of which is
$6,000; (2) a Western Electric crystal oscillator unit, stand¬
ard equipment for the Western Electric 5 kilowatt trans¬
mitter, containing two temperature controlled quartz crys¬
tals for frequency control”-
Commissioner Robinson: That is out of the case.
Mr. Strong: He says that the total cost to the corpora¬
tion of the radio equipment is $150,000.
He gives his education.
Mr. Fisher: Who made this affidavit ?
Mr. Strong: James O. Weldon, radio engineer.
Commissioner Robinson: Let it be admitted. The Com¬
mission will see what it is worth.
(The affidavit of James O. Weldon was thereupon marked
“Applicant’s Exhibit No. 12 in evidence.”
Mr. Fisher: We would like to save an exception to all
these, if the Commission please.
Commissioner Robinson: The affidavit may be admitted
with the reservation that the Commission, upon considera¬
tion of this case, will determine their relevancy and how
far they are admissible.
Mr. Strong: We now offer the affidavit of Calvin J.
Miller, who says that he lives in the city of Milford, Kan-
84 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
sas, is 23 years of age; married and have no children; that
his occupation since June 30, 1929, has been that of radio
operator of Station KFKB, Milford, Kansas; that his na¬
tionality is American; that his salary is $35 a week
141 and that he has no other employment; that it is his
duty and the duty of his fellow radio operator, Earl
L. Eggers, to listen to everything that is broadcast over the
station; that he has listened to all of the talks that Dr.
John R. Brinkley has given; that during all of the many
lectures and talks he has given he has never heard him or
anv other lecturer or entertainer over the station use any
vile or profane or vulgar language or discuss pregnancy
or sex questions, or use any words, terms or phrases that
would be unbecoming to public decency or morals or ob¬
jectionable to any one, nor has he ever heard Dr. Brinkley
or any other person or persons make any fraudulent, un¬
reliable or misleading statements over the station.
He states that beginning on the first dav of Februarv,
1930, and continuously until and including the signing of
this affidavit, Dr. Brinkley has personally broadcast over
this station on the following hours—and he sets them forth.
He states that Dr. Brinkley introduces the Medical Ques¬
tion Box with advice to his listeners to practice prevention
of disease rather than the curing of the same; he advises
mothers to have their children vaccinated against small¬
pox, diphtheria and typhoid; he advises people to consult
their family physicians or surgeons and advises everybody
to have a thorough physical examination once or twice
everv vear. He savs:
•/ + *
“In my occupation, as above stated, I am in close touch
with and keep posted on other programs and numbers
.broadcast by other radio stations in the United
142 States, and I can truthfully say that the programs
and entertainments as broadcast by Station KFKB
compare very favorably with other stations broadcasting
over the air. The programs of Station KFKB are of a
high class, moral and uplifting nature.”
Mr. Fisher: We are willing for this to be admitted, but
we do object to having counsel reading portions of it.
Mr. Strong: You allowed Mr. Ralston to read portions
of pamphlets.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
85
Mr. Fisher: I did not allow him.
Mr. Strong: These are statements or affidavits of all of
the employees of the station.
150 Commissioner Robinson: That is the very trouble
that I have with this case, taking the whole thing as
to radio and the uses of radio and what God gave it to us
for. Can you so commercialize it? In other Swords, we give
it to Dr. Brinkley. He may be a good doctor and ought to
have it, and then another and another. These wave lengths
ought to be devoted to the highest uses. I am not saying
this is not; I do not know, yet. Those are questions that
will arise.
I am very glad that you have given us that affidavit, be¬
cause I have been wondering where the revenue came out
of this combination. Is this license for use rhajorly for that
and do the listeners get only minor service?
Mr. Strong: Let me go on:
“That the number of different prescriptions are in ex¬
cess of thirty; that the number of druggists in the
151-154 association are in excess of five hundred and the
number is increasing.
He gets nothing from any prescription excepting this one,
for which he gets a dollar.
I would like to say that this gentleman is here, willing to
testify, and he was here a week ago.
Commissioner Robinson: When I am not a radio commis¬
sioner I am a farmer and cattle raiser. Perhaps I could
organize a thing of that kind and get a license from Gen¬
eral Saltzman of the Commission and make a revenue. The
question is, who is getting the major benefit? There are
many occupations in the country besides medicine and
farming. There are the merchant and the automobile sales¬
man and thousands of others. Ought not every wave length
to be devoted to the benefit of the public, not in the interest
of one or a few?
That is no comment on your case. It is to direct you as
to what I want brought out here. How useful is this to the
listeners? They are the owners of the license. It is their
medium that is used.
Mr. Strong (continuing reading from affidavit): “That
the affiant is informed and believes that these prescriptions
are very benficial, and knows that they are filled with the
86
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
very highest quality of medicine obtainable, and also that
people are recommending them to their friends.”
Commissioner Robinson: We cannot decide that issue—
how beneficial they are.
155 Charles B. Trimmer was called as a witness for
and on behalf of the applicant and, being first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
Direct examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. What is your full name ? A. Charles B. Trimmer.
Q. What is your business? A. Attorney at law.
Q. Where are you located? A. Kansas City, Missouri.
Q. State your connection with this station. A. I have
done work for Dr. Brinkley for quite a number of years,
and when this question came up about the radio license I
went to Milford, Kansas, and opened an office there, took
letters as a foundation, that had been received from radio
listeners, and sent them questionnaires propounding about
twenty questions to them. From those twenty questions I
prepared affidavits and sent to them. I started out first, to
write them. Weather conditions were against us and I
could not get typewriters in that little town and could not
get stenographers; I could not get papers or anything there.
It is 12 or 14 miles from Junction City, and I finally
156 made out form affidavits here and filled them in from
their questionnaires.
For instance, if you go down the affidavit here you will
see that it tells their name and the state they live in, the
county, whether they are married or single, and their age
and occupation. If it is a woman, giving the occupation of
her husband; the name of the set that they own and if they
enjoy the various features of KFKB and are interested par¬
ticularly in—that was filled in from the questionnaire.
This (indicating) is what we call a medical affidavit—an
affiant that has acted upon the advice of Dr. Brinkley and
what the results had been of his medicine. That is put in
here; and then, “Never heard Dr. Brinkley use vile, profane
or vulgar language or discuss sex matters or use any words,
terms or phrases which would be unbecoming to public
decency or morals, or objectionable to any one, or fraudu¬
lent, unreliable or misleading statements.”
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
87
And it goes on to say about the small amount of time
that Dr. Brinkley uses in his lectures on the radio; that they
have been benefited by them, and they believe the lectures
are normally, mentally and physically uplifting and bene¬
ficial ; and that the affiant believes that more power and time
should be given in the evening-
Q. There is no need of going into that. A. It is sworn to
before a notary in each case.
Q. I just wanted to know the procedure you followed.
That is all.
I
157 Examination on behalf of the Commission. /“"
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. How many different form affidavits did you get up, Mr.
Trimmer? A. About three.
Q. Stock forms? A. Yes.
Q. And these 1200 are the result of those form affidavits?
A. Yes. • |
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. How many were returned with any change or inter¬
lineation? A. About five—from five to ten.
Q. All the others just adopted them as you prepared
them? A. Adopted them as I prepared them from the ques¬
tionnaire sent to me by the affiant, the person making the
affidavit.
, |
Redirect examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. There are a lot of affidavits in there that are not form
affidavits? A. There are lots of them in here. I had six
stenographers drawing them as fast as we could draw them.
Q. How much notice did you have to prepare them and ap¬
pear at the hearing? A. From along about the 18th of April
until the date we left Milford.
158 Q. When did you actually get notice from the Com¬
mission that this hearing was to be held? A. I did
not get the actual notice from the Commission, or, rather,
we did not out there, until the latter part of April.
88
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. You say there are no changes in the affidavits. Are
there not interlineations in almost all of them? A. How do
you mean? You have made some-
Q. Some of the affiants have made some. Are there not
some pencil marks on some of these to assist me in pre¬
senting the matter to the Commission? A. I mean, to
emphasize them.
Q. Is it not true that in these form affidavits the people
would write in with a pen the comments of their own ? A.
Yes; a great number of them.
Ee-examination on behalf of the Commission.
Bv Mr. Fisher:
*
Q. Just when did you go out to Milford to take care of
this service for Dr. Brinkley? When did you start out
there, approximately? A. I cannot tell exactly, but along
about the 15th or 18th of April, I think.
Q. About the middle of April? A. Yes; about then. I
didn't go out there to take care of this service; I went out
there on other matters.
Q. For Dr. Brinkley? A. Yes.
159 Q. Have you been in his employ since that time,
continuously? A. Practically, yes. I have put the
biggest part of my time in on this work.
Q. You have been out there? A. In and out.
Q. How much of a clerical force did you use on this?
A. I had six clerks, all together, toward the last of last
week. Before that, two stenographers and myself.
Q. From two to six at all times since you have been
there? A. Yes.
Q. Were you present when the station sent out word
that there was a certain complaint being made against them
and to send in letters to the Commission? Were you present
in Milford at that time? A. No, sir.
Q. You did not hear that matter being broadcast over
the station? A. No, sir.
Q. But you went out there at the request of Dr. Brinkley,
of course? A. I went out really on business of my own.
I then saw Dr. Brinkley while I was there.
*
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
89 '
Q. And he gave you a job? A. No; he didn’t especially
give me a job. I have been continuously in his employ for
years.
Q. Are you on a retainer for himli A. No; but
160 he sends for me whenever he wants me.! He wires me
and tells me what to do, and I have always done it.
Q. Since that time you have practically be'en in his con¬
tinuous employment? A. Practically so; yes.
Q. When did you first receive word fronj the commis¬
sion that the license had only been renewed for thirty days
and that a hearing would be held at this time? A. I don’t
know. I think that was the latter part of April. I didn’t
receive any word. If the word was recefvled it was re¬
ceived by Howard Wilson, secretary.
Q. And then it was turned over to you? A. It was not.
I
He just told me verbally.
Q. And you think that was the last of April? A. I
think so.
Q. Then between the 15th of April and the last of April
you were there under the employ of Dr. Brinkley and be¬
fore there was any notice that there was going to be any
hearing on his station or anything; is not that true? A.
Yes. I was there doing divers things and 1 was in and
out there and made several trips.
Q. And preparing these affidavits? A. I prepared some
of these in particular. I have numerous other affidavits,
Mr. Fisher.
Q. Pertaining to the station and the character of the
programs? A. And pertaining to the hospital; not the
station in particular.
161 Mr. Fisher: I think that is all.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. Where did you establish headquarters for the clerical
force? A. I just went out there and opened up one of the
stores on the main street there.
Q. How far out from Milford would you go in getting
affidavits? A. I didn’t go out to get any affidavits.
Q. How far out would you send letters or questionnaires?
A. They have been sent all over the country.
90
KFKB BROADCAST!!?G ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. What do you mean by that ? A. All through Kansas;
some in Nebraska; quite a number of them in Missouri.
Q. How did you get a list so that you could mail out
these questionnaires? A. From a bunch of letters that
were there on file in KFKB commenting and applauding,
you might say, if I can use that word, the station’s pro¬
grams.
Q. Did you get very many affidavits from Junction City?
A. There are quite a number.
Q. From Manhattan? A. Yes, and Riley, down in
through there.
Q. Did any of those druggists that are members of that
pharmaceutical association assist you? A. Indirectly.
Q. What do you mean by that? A. Some of them
162 sometimes sent in letters with a couple of names on,
saying, “These are people that are using the doc¬
tor’s medicine.” And we would send them a questionnaire
and they would have to answer it in their own handwriting,
and when we did that we sent them an affidavit.
Q. Did you get any affidavits from Hutchinson, Kansas?
A. I think so.
Q. Very many? A. Quite a few.
Q. Did you get any from Topeka? A. Yes; quite a
bunch.
Q. How far is Topeka from Milford? A. Two and a half
hours’ ride; two hours from Junction City to Topeka on
the train. About 45 minutes from Milford to Junction City
by automobile.
Q. How many of those affidavits came from points out¬
side of Kansas? A. Oh, half.
Q. Half of them? A. Yes.
Mr. Strong: I have looked over those myself, and I think
that is pretty high.
The Witness: Well, maybe it is.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. One further question. Who paid the notary fees for
all these? A. Dr. Brinkley.
Q. I noticed they were notaried all over the coun-
163 try. A. Yes.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
91
Q. You offered to pay the notary fees? A. I sent
them a check with the affidavit, for 50 cents to pay the
notary fee, on a Milford bank, my checking account. The
money was given to me by Dr. Brinkley.
Mr. Fisher: I have no further questions.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Was there anything else paid these people? A. Not
another dime; no, sir.
Q. Is there any understanding or agreement or arrange¬
ment that they are to be paid? A. No; none whatsoever;
and 40 per cent of these checks were returned- The people
had them notarized themselves and paid the fee. I got all
kinds of letters from people—“Send me an affidavit”-
Q. At the time you were out there was Dr. Brinkley him¬
self in difficulties with the Kansas State Medical Associa¬
tion and had citations been issued against him with regard
to his license? A. You mean, just lately?
Q. Yes. A. Yes.
Q. Did you have any connection with that? A. None
whatsoever.
By Mr. Fisher: j
Q. But that did not come until just lately* did it? That
did not come when you first went there, April 15 ? A. Just
about along in there they commenced to serve notice
164 on him.
Q. When did they actually serve hotice on him?
A. I don’t know.
Q. That was in May, was it not? A. I will be very frank.
I went out there to take charge of this work and this only.
I said, “You have your attorneys in Topeka and in Wash¬
ington. I will take charge of this work until after the radio
hearing, and then I have got to go back to Kansas City.”
I have got another engagement during the summer and fall.
Mr. Fisher: That is all.
By Commissioner Robinson:
i
Q. I have a question or two. Would it be the best public
service for you and I, both lawyers, to practice law ac-
92 KEKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
cording to this same method, in view of the great number
of lawyers in the country? In other words, if we have a
broadcasting license, could we say over the radio, “Send in
your particular case and I will answer you”? Is that the
purpose of a broadcasting license? Where would it lead?
A. I want to answer that question by stating to you that I
am verv unfamiliar with the radio law. If vou will talk
political law to me I can talk to you. My efforts are con¬
fined mostly in my practice to being the chairman of the
registration committee of my county down there and writ¬
ing on the subject of legal voting, and so on and so forth,
and for other counties.
Q. I am not deciding that the major service is this med¬
ical service. I do not know what this evidence will de¬
velop; but one phase of this case is that here is a
165 doctor who practices at long range. If he can, I as
a lawyer can, and say, “Write me your troubles.”
Immediatelv some woman mav write and tell me about her
husband and how he wants to get rid of her, and then I go
on the air and advise her. Is that the use for which radio,
with the limited number of channels, is intended? A. I
would take it that radio and the rights of it are confined
to the service of the people. The question is whether a
doctor can serve the people by the air as well and as effi¬
ciently as he can on the telephone or in the newspapers. It
is being done here every day right in your own city. That
is the question that appeals to me. Your leading papers
have health columns.
Q. Yes; but a newspaper is privately owned and does
not use that which belongs to the public. A newspaper is
a private institution, while a radio is a public utility and
the medium of the air is owned by the people. There are
many people and very few channels. Should not this Com¬
mission devote it to the very highest use, not to an indi¬
vidual use ? A. That may be true; but if you do that, then
you have got to cut out all advertisements of any kind—
tooth paste and hair restorers and everything else.
Q. Yes; as I said once before, this is not dissimilar to
other instances. Query: whether Congress did not intend
a mere furnishing of money and a mere sponsoring. Now it
has led to auctioneers’ speeches. A. You and I both like
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
93
to listen to Amos ’n’ Andy, but we have to listen to a lot
of advertising in connection with it.
166 Q. No; I do not. There is nobody bqrn in my part
of the country but what has heard that.
(Witness excused.) j
J
Mrs. Hazel Carlton was called as a witness for and on
behalf of the applicant and, being first duly sworn, testi¬
fied as follows:
I
Direct examination.
!
j
By Mr. Strong:
Q. State your full name. A. Hazel Carlton.
Q. Where do you live? A. Grand Island, Nebraska.
Q. Are you married? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you have any children? A. Five, j
Q. Are you a listener to station KFKB? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you or do you not like the programs? A. Yes.
Q. Do you like them or do you not like thbm? A. I like
them.
Q. What features of the programs do you like the most?
A. I am partial to Dr. Brinkley because I am a firm be¬
liever in Christian citizenship and advancement in medical
education among the motherhood of America.
Q. Have you ever heard anything over that sta-
167 tion of an offensive nature? A. No; I never have.
Q. Indecent or obscene? A. No.
Q. False or fraudulent? A. No.
Q. Anything that you object to having iyour children
hear? A. No.
Q. What other stations do you hear? A. I am quite a
radio fan and I listen in on all that I can get range of.
Q. How does this station compare with other stations to
which you listen? A. I prefer KFKB over any of the
stations that I can get, except, of course—well, KFKB is
my favorite.
Mr. Strong: That is all.
94
KERB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Examination on behalf of the Commission.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. You are the mother of some children? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many. A. Four boys and one girl.
Q. Are you familiar with this question box arrangement
of Dr. Brinkley’s over the radio? You must be if you lis¬
ten to it? A. Yes.
Q. You have heard him say that if questions are sent
in he will tell you the troubles and ailments that you
168 have? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you ever apply through that question box
for a cure for some ailment of some of your children?
Mr. Strong: I object. I did not ask that on the original
examination. Do you want to make her your witness?
Mr. Fisher: No; but you made her a witness to the ex<4
tent that she testified she did listen to these programs and
knew what was going on and preferred his program over
every other. I think I have a right-
Commissioner Robinson: Proceed.
Mr. Holland: You put into the witness’ mouth some¬
thing that did not come out of her mouth or, as I recall,
out of the mouth of any other witness, to wit, that Dr.
Brinkley over the radio asked to have them send in their
complaints to him.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Did Dr. Brinkley ask to have complaints sent in?
Did you not say “Yes” to that question? A. Yes.
Q. Did you send in any complaints regarding your chil¬
dren? A. No. I just have gotten one prescription.
Q. But not for the children? A. For myself; but I did
not ask Dr. Brinkley for it. I just simply went and got
it. I knew what my trouble was. I knew I had to have re¬
lief. You take a chance, you know, on using your own judg¬
ment a lot.
Q. Then he did not diagnose your case by what
169 vou wrote in to him? A. No.
Q. You have heard him send out replies in his
question box as to what different children might have, and
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
95
the prescription they should take, with regard to the num¬
ber? A. Yes, sir.
Q. If a child happened to be very sick at the time that
they wrote in, would not that be a rather dangerous prac¬
tice to pursue? A. Well, now, with my own children I
don’t wait until my children are dangerously ill before I
sent for a doctor, and I don’t think that any mother should
do that. I think she should always be on guard over her
children’s health.
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. Have you a family physician out there in Nebraska
where you live? A. Several of them.
Q. Why have you not one like practically every family
has to whom they are rather devoted and have somewhat of
a spiritual feeling toward him, as families usually do with
a family doctor? A. I have a doctor. |
Q. Do you consult him about whether you should use
this broadcast medical service? A. Well, I have him for
the children.
Q. What does he say? Did you ever consult him as to
this long range medicine? A. I have not talked to him
about it.
170 Bv Mr. Fisher:
*
|
Q. You have him for the children, but you write in for
one of the prescriptions; is that it?
Mr. Strong: She did not testify to that.
A. I received the information over the air ahd I took the
responsibility on my own shoulders.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Are you here at your own expense or at the expense
of Dr. Brinkley? A. At my own expense.
Q. Did you hear him broadcast with regard to having
witnesses come and he would pay their expenses, within
the last week or so? A. No; I do not think so—no; I did
not.
Q. You say you are a constant listener of that station?
A. Yes.
Q. You did not hear anything to that effect? A. No.
96
KF.KB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. How far away do you live? A. Two hundred and
forty-two miles north.
Q. Do you hear the station distinctly in the daytime?
A. Yes; I can hear it all the time.
Cross-examination.
By Mr. Ralston:
Q. What was the number of the prescription that you
took? A. It was 114 and it became 50.
171 What did you pay for it? A. $3.50.
Q. That is the liver and constipation medicine?
A. But it was worth a whole lot more than that to me.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Did not the Doctor write and urge you to come? A.
Oh, no; he did not.
Q. How did you happen to know about the hearing here?
A. Whv, a friend told me about it.
Q. Then you voluntarily came here from Nebraska to
submit this evidence? A. Yes, sir.
(Witness excused.)
Earl M. Carlton was called as a witness on behalf of the
applicant and, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Direct examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. What is your name? A. Earl M. Carlton.
Q. What is your residence? A. Grand Island, Nebraska.
Q. Are you the husband of the lady who just testified?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you hear her testimony? A. I didn’t hear
172 it completely, no. I couldn’t hear it very well.
Q. Are you a listener to Station KFKB? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Do you enjoy the programs of that station yourself?
A. Verv much.
Q. Wliat part of the programs do you like the most? A.
I am interested—I am a doctor’s son and I am interested
quite a good deal in the medical talks. I also enjoy very
much the musical programs they have.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
97
Q. Did you ever hear anything of an offensive nature
over the station? A. No, sir; not of any kind whatsoever.
Q. Anything you would object to having your children
hear, or your wife? A. I would be glad to have them
hear it.
Mr. Strong: That is all.
Examination on behalf of the Commission.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Mr. Carlton, you are the husband of the lady who was
just on the witness stand? A. Yes.
Q. You both came here together, I presume? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. What do you do there, Mr. Carlton? A. I am dis¬
trict manager for the Cosden Oil Company.
Q. Were you asked by Dr. Brinkley or any of his agents
or associates to come to this hearing, or invited to
173 come? A. No. I will tell you how that happened. I
was down to see Dr. Brinkley about two months ago
relative to a condition that I have-
Q. That you hhve personally? A. Yes, sir. There was
a Mrs. Thompson that wanted to come down here and come
to Washington, and I thought it would be a good oppor¬
tunity to take her down here. She is a friend of ours, and
also see the doctor relative to my condition at the same
time. I had heard through her about this trip, although
when we left we did not have any intentions of coming, but
I thought that perhaps my testimony might be of some as¬
sistance.
Q. Then is Mrs. Thompson paying your way here? A.
No, sir. I
Q. You are paying your own way? A. Yes, sir; abso¬
lutely.
Q. Dr. Brinkley has not promised to pay it? A. He has
not talked to me about it.
Q. Do you hear the programs over his station regularly?
A. I did up to a month ago. I am located jn Ravenna. I
hear it on another radio, but it doesn’t tune in where I
want to.
Q. Have you been a patient at the Brinkley Hospital?
A. I was down there for an examination. I went down
7—5240a
98 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
there thinking perhaps I had prostate trouble, but they
turned me down and said that was not my trouble.
Q. You did not have an operation? A. No,
174 sir.
Q. Did you secure any of this literature from the
hospital pursuant to these radio talks that the Doctor
made? A. Which particular literature do you mean?
Q. “Your Health”, and “Paw and Maw” and “Life.”
A. I didn’t procure any, but there was some sent direct
to the house. I don’t know just how it came or anything
about it.
Q. Sent from the hospital or the radio station? A. I
couldn’t say; I don’t know.
Q. It came from the Brinkley Institute? A. Evidently
it did. His name was on it.
Q. You did not hear the broadcast from that station with
regard to paying witnesses to attend here? A. No, sir.
Q. You did not hear that at all? A. No, sir. My under¬
standing was that they were not to be paid.
Redirect examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. When you went to the hospital to have this opera¬
tion performed were you prepared to pay $750 for the
operation? A. I was not sure whether I would have to
have that operation or the $250, but I was prepared and
made preparations for either emergency.
Q. What did the physician at the hospital tell you? A.
He told me that that was not my trouble at all; my trouble
was kidney trouble. He gave me a prescription
175-178 and put me on a strict diet which I have followed
for about two months. At the present time I am
on a diet.
Q. Is that one of the numbered prescriptions? A. Yes.
They gave me a prescription with a number on.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. What number was that? A. There are two of them--
106 or 107.
(Witness excused.)
179 Mrs. Ben Hall was called as a witness for and
on behalf of the applicant and, having been duly
sworn, testified as follows:
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
99
Direct examination.
By Mr. Strong:
180 Q. State your full name. A. Mrs. Ben Hall.
Q. What is your occupation? A. Housewife.
Q. Where do you live? A. Dodge City, Kansas.
Q. Are you a listener to station KFKB? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you enjoy its programs? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What part of the programs do you enjoy most? A.
Especially the religious lectures on Sunday and Masonic
lectures and the medical question box.
Q. Have you ever heard anything of an offensive or in¬
decent character over that station? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you have any children? A. One.
Q. Have you heard anything that you would object to
the child hearing? A. Not in the least, if he was old
enough.
Mr. Strong: I think that is all.
Mr. Fisher: No questions.
Mr. Strong: Oh, by the way: Is anybody; paying your
expenses here ? j
The Witness: I am paying my own expenses.
(Witness excused.)
Mrs. John Thompson was called as a witness for and on
behalf of the applicant and, being first duly sworn, testi¬
fied as follows:
Commissioner Robinson: May not a litigant pay
181 the expense of a witness?
Mr. Strong: Yes; but the fact that they do not,
shows the interest of these people in the station.
Commissioner Robinson: The law requires; a litigant to
pay the expense of a witness-
Mr. Strong: There would be nothing objectionable to it.
I was very much surprised, myself, Judge,; to find that
these people had come here at their own expense because
of their interest in this station and what it was broadcast¬
ing. !
Direct examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. What is your full name? A. Mrs. Johii Thompson.
Q. Where do you live? A. Alda, Nebraska.
100 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. What is your occupation? A. Housewife.
Q. You are married? A. I sure am.
Q. Do you listen to Station KFKB? A. Constantly.
Q. Do you enjoy its programs? A. Sure, I do.
Q. Which program do you enjoy the most? A. I like
them all, but most is the medicinal question box.
Commissioner Robinson: The medicine question on this
station is the most of it, is it not? Or am I wrong?
The Witness: It is mighty fine. I don’t know.
182 Commissioner Robinson: I have not been able to
find out yet just what part of this radio service is
medical. You hear it all day. What is the proportion
of the medical talks to music and entertainment? About
how much of it is Dr. Brinkley and how much of it is some¬
thing else?
The Witness: It is three hours, a half hour in the morn¬
ing, a half hour at noon and a half an hour in the after¬
noon—
Commissioner Robinson: Then the station is on the air
all the other time with some other sort of program?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Have you ever heard anything obscene or indecent
or objectionable broadcast over that radio station? A.
No, sir; never did.
Q. Have you any children? A. Yes.
Q. Have you ever heard anything that you would object
to their hearing? A. No; I would say—I should say nofr
Q. Is anybody paying your expenses here? A. No; I
do that myself for the doctor’s benefit. I came a good
ways, too.
Mr. Strong: That is all.
Mr. Fisher: No questions.
(Witness excused.)
Mrs. B. E. Parks was called as a witness for and on
behalf of the applicant and, being first duly sworn, testified
as follows:
183 & 184 Direct examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. W T hat is your full name? A. Mrs. B. E. Parks.
Q. W 7 here do you reside? A. Ottawa, Kansas.
FEDERAL, RADIO COMMISSION.
101
Q. Are you a listener to Station KFKB? A. I am.
Q. Do you enjoy its programs? A. I surely do.
Q. What part of the programs do you enjoy most? A.
I enjoy all of them. I love his Sunday talks, and I en¬
joy—
Q. Have you ever heard his medical question box? A.
Yes; every time I can.
Q. Do you enjoy that? A. I do.
Q. Have you ever heard anything of an indecent or ob¬
scene or false nature? A. Never.
Q. Anything that was objectionable to you? A. Noth¬
ing whatever.
Q. Do you have any children? A. No.
Q. Are you paying your own expenses here? A. I am.
Mr. Strong: That is all.
185 Examination on behalf of the Commission.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Have you ever sent in any description of any ailment
that you might have? A. I did.
Q. Did he broadcast over the station there what pre¬
scription to take, and so forth? A. He did, and I am tak¬
ing it and I am away better.
Q. You are taking it and you feel better? A. Yes.
Q. How did you send that in—by letter to him? A. Yes.
Q. At his request, over the air? A. No; at my own re¬
quest. I
Q. You heard him tell over the air that he would be glad
to answer these questions? A. I don’t know that he said
he would be glad to. \
Q. That he would answer them, then. A. He does an¬
swer them.
Q. He answered yours over the air ? A. He did.
Q. Told you what to take and the number of the pre¬
scription? A. Yes.
Q. What number did he give you? A. 50; 62 and 86.
Commissioner Robinson: Is not that point to point ser¬
vice, Mr. Strong?
Mr. Strong: My answer to that is that there was one
ladv who testified that she did not send anv in: she
! * '
186 followed what she heard over the ait in connection
with some one else. It is not secret;: it is not con-
102
KEKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
fidential. It seems to be a matter of general public inter¬
est. These women are listening to these programs and en¬
joying them. Whether they like to hear of the ailments
of others or the cures, or what it is, I do not know, but
they are interested and they are listening to these pro¬
grams.
Mr. Fisher: That is an answer to a specific question of
a specific person. Because others may listen in it does
not get away from the question that it is a specific answer
to a specific person.
Commissioner Robinson: I just wondered whether everv
medical case has not its own distinctions as every law case
has. I never saw the same concrete facts in a case sub¬
mitted to me on litigation. Each one has to be advised
rather distinetlv. Mavbe it is not so in medicine.
* •
By Mr. Brown:
Q. Bid vou send vour letter direct to Dr. Brinklev? A.
Yes.
Q: Did you address it to him at the hospital or at the
station? A. I can’t remember that. I knew he would get
it anvwav.
Cross-examination.
By Mr. Ralston:
Q. What did prescription No. 50 cost?
A. I got a number together, but I don’t remember just
what it was.
*
Q. Hew many did you get together? A. T got th«
187 ones he told me to take if I needed them.
Q. How many? A. Three.
Q. What did they all cost? A. I can’t remember that.
I wasn’t interested in the price; I was interested in getting
health.
Bv Commissioner Robinson:
Q. You got them filled at your local druggist’s?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: And they understood the num¬
ber?
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
103
The Witness: They sure did.
Commissioner Robinson: They had that from Dr.
Brinkley ?
The Witness: Yes. If I couldn’t get help from any of
my own doctors, why shouldn’t I get help from some one
else ?
Commissioner Robinson: We are not blaming you.
Mr. Fisher: What is your first name?
The Witness: Byrnina.
(Witness excused.)
Mrs. Bertha Lacey was called as a witness for and on
behalf of the applicant and, being first duly sworn, testi¬
fied as follows:
Direct examination.
By Mr. Strong:
188 Q. What is your full name? A. Bertha Lacey.
Q. Where are you from? A. Wathena, Kansas.
Q. Are you a listener of Station KFKB? A. Yes.
Q. Do you enjoy its programs? A. We sure do.
Q. Do you have any preference for any part of the pro¬
grams? A. Yes, sir; the medical box.
Q. Have you ever heard anything objectionable or obscene
or indecent broadcast over that station? A. No, sir;
nothing but the best.
Q. Have you any children ? A. I raised four, but not my
own.
Q. Was there anything you ever heard over there that
would be objectionable to children? A. No, sir.
Q. Are you paying your own expenses here? A. My hus¬
band is.
Q. Is he here with you? A. No; he is not here, but he in¬
sisted on my coming.
Examination on behalf of the Commission.
By Mr. Fisher:
j
Q. You say that the medical question box is of the great¬
est interest to you. As a matter of fact, is not a large per¬
centage of the time that that is put on the air taken up in
104
KERB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
answers to individual questions from individual per-
189 sons as to their ailments and complaints? A. You
can sit there and listen when other ladies send in, and
you can listen to what the letters say, and you would be
awful dumb if you didn’t know what was the matter with
you.
Q. You can listen to what other ladies say to him? A.
As to what is the matter with them.
Q. And he prescribes from that letter ? A. He prescribes
for the ailments: He doesn’t tell the individual to get that.
He says it is good for that ailment.
Q. Does he read the question? A. What kind of a ques¬
tion?
Q. That is sent in to him. A. He reads off—whatever
was the matter with me I would sit down and write and tell
him just exactly, what was the matter with me.
Q. How would he answer that? Just explain to the Com¬
mission. A. I can tell vou mv case better than I can tell
vou somebodv else’s.
Q. Did you send in a question? A. I did, and have taken
his medicine for four months. Mv husband sat down and
*
wrote a letter himself to Dr. Brinkley and told him just
exactly what was the matter with me.
Q. Were you urged over the radio to write in? A. We
can write if we want to. We listen to the radio. We have
it all the time on that number. I had been sick for
190 22 vears.
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. What name did you give? A. I gave the code of D. R.
L., mv husband’s initials.
Commissioner Robinson: And then he talked back to you
using that code?
The Witness: Yes, sir. My sister and several of us were
sitting there listening, and then I sent and got the medicine
that the doctor said was good to clean your system with,
and it has helped me wonderfully. I wouldn’t be here today
if I hadn’t got that medicine. And that is why my husband
insisted on my coming.
Bv Mr. Fisher:
Q. Did he read your letter over the radio and tell you
what to do for that ? A. He told me what was good for that.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
105
Q. Did he read it over the radio? A. Yes; sir.
Q. He read the letter that you sent in to him with the code
name? A. Yes.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. He read the whole letter that was sent in by your hus¬
band? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Signed D. R. L.? A. Yes.
Q. He read the letter first and stated it was signed
191 “D. R. L.”? A. No; he read the code.
Q. Didn’t he read the letter? A. I put the code at
the top.
Q. So he didn’t read the whole letter? A. Yes; he read
my letter and then I knew by his reading the letter what
was good for my ailments and I sent and got it.
Q. Did you hear him read your letter over the radio ? A.
Yes, sir. That is what I sent my letter in for.
Commissioner Robinson: He said, “Now D. R. L., this
is what you need”?
The Witness: No; he stated this was good for this ail¬
ment.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. Did he tell you where to get that prescription filled?
A. Before the drug store in our town got that prescription,
I sent and got it at Milford. I have taken it four months;
and after I had taken it two weeks, there were ten in that
family that took it in our generation, after they saw what
it did for me.
Q. How did you know where to go; that is, the proper
drug store to go to to get this prescription filled?
Mr. Strong: She wrote to Milford.
The Witness: I wrote to the Milford drug store and they
have got the letter that I wrote down there.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. The druggists do not advertise, then, “Dr.
192 Brinkley’s prescriptions are filled here”? A. No;
I never saw no ad. at all.
106 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Cross-examination.
By Mr. Ralston:
Q. What number was that prescription? A. I first started
to take 114 and then it was 150.
Q. How was the number changed? A. I don’t know how
they changed it. I didn’t pay any attention to that.
Q. How did you find out the number had been changed?
A. I sent to the Milford drug store. I got the medicine and
took it to the druggist in my town and he said, “There is
no better medicine on the market.”
Q. How did you know the number was changed? A. Be¬
cause I sent to the Milford drug store and got more of that
medicine.
Q. Who informed you about the change of the number?
A. Because I had been getting my medicine there all the
time. That is where I sent to get my medicine.
Q. But who informed you that the number had been
changed from 114 to 150? A. On the radio, and then I told
you that I sent to the drug store for more medicine.
Q. Then you got the information over the radio that the
number was changed from 114 to 150 ? A. Why, yes.
193 Mr. Ralston: That is what I wanted to know.
Redirect examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. When you heard your code number called, did the doc¬
tor describe the symptoms in your particular case? A. Yes,
and said that medicine would help.
Q. After outlining the symptoms? A. Yes, sir; and it was
not only helpful, but it is wonderful.
By Mr. Ralston:
Q. What does it cost? A. $3.50.
Q. How large a bottle is it ? A. Eight ounces, and will last
you forty days, and it is very reasonable, two teaspoonfuls
a day.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Fisher: May it please your Honor, before we adjourn
I wanted to put on a doctor out of turn before Mr. Strong
FEDEItAL RADIO COMMISSION
107
closes his case, because this witness is going out of the city-
tomorrow for the rest of the week.
Mr. Strong: I have no objection. |
Dr. Hugh H. Young was called as a witness for and on
behalf of the Commission and, being first duly sworn, testi¬
fied as follows:
|
Direct examination.
i
i
By Mr. Fisher:
I
Q. State your name, residence and occupation. A. My
name is Dr. Hugh H. Young; I live in Baltimore, Maryland;
I am a surgeon and I am professor of urology at
194 Johns Hopkins University and Hospital.
Q. State your experience.
Commissioner Robinson: I suppose you will admit that
that qualifies him, will you not?
Mr. Strong: Oh, yes.
Commissioner Robinson: A connection with Johns Hop¬
kins ought to qualify anybody.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. You have heard the testimony of Mrs. Lacey in regard
to the medical question box method used by Dr. Brinkley
pertaining to her particular case and the I matter of her
sending in information and her case being diagno 2 ed by
the doctor and reply given over the radio ? A. I have.
Q. In your opinion as an expert, please state to the Com¬
mission the value of that kind of service, or its danger to
the public health. A. I would think if that were the gen¬
eral method carried out it would be practically impossible
to make diagnoses with any scientific accuracy whatever.
Personally, I would never be willing to send prescriptions
or to make a diagnosis on any such information as that
without examination and without a study of the case other
than the opinion of a person who knew no medicine herself.
I would think that such a thing carried out broadcast, used
by people who are not seen and are not examined, both by
other members of the family, and used by hundreds of
others that heard of it over the radio and thought they
108 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
might have the same condition, men, women and
195 children, would be of the greatest possible public
danger.
Q. Are you familiar with Kansas Exhibit No. 1 which
has been introduced here? A. Yes.
Q. Have you had occasion to read portions of that and in¬
vestigate it—which is referred to as Kansas Exhibit No. 1?
A. Yes; I have read it.
Q. You have read certain portions of it? A. Yes; I have.
Q. Will you turn to page 10 with regard to the method of
operation that he uses, called the Compound Operation, I
think-
Mr. Strong: I object to this.
Mr. Fisher: Four phase compound operation.
Mr. Strong: This has not been broadcast over the radio,
this document. The question as to whether that compound
operation is good or bad or indifferent is not in issue. Is it
your intention to go into the question of the operations of
this hospital as to whether they are proper or not?
Mr. Fisher: It is our contention, your Honor, that this
has been properly connected up with certain radio speeches
that have gone out over that broadcasting station, urging
the public to write in and get this information, and as a re¬
sult this information was sent out to them, which makes it
just as much a part of the broadcast as the prescription that
he prescribes over the radio and just as dangerous to the
public. And since it has been connected up properly
196 with them, we have a right to question the authority
and the dangerousness of the material being broad¬
cast.
In addition, I call attention to the front of Kansas Ex¬
hibit 1 where it states, “Compliments of the Brinkley Hos¬
pital, Operating Radio Broadcasting Station KFKB.
KFKB broadcasts each day from 5 a. m. until 7 p. m., 1050
kilocycles—5,000 watts, 285.5 meters. Dr. Brinkley lectures
each day 5:30 a. m., 12:30 p. m. and 6:30 p. m. ”
Absolutely identifying this as the information that they
are requesting the public to get through these radio lectures.
Mr. Strong: That is an attempt to do indirectly what can¬
not be done directly. Congress specifically provided in the
Radio Act of 1927, which has not been changed in this par¬
ticular respect,-that this Commission should have no power
of censorship. That was a specific prohibition. If any of
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
109
these stations are doing anything which is inimical to public
health or anything of that nature, there are other tribunals
to whom the medical profession and the public can appeal.
There is a proper tribunal before whom to present this mat¬
ter. But this is an attempt to go into the activities of a hos¬
pital that uses this station, to censor its programs. The
law says specifically, “No censorship.”
This is important not only from the standpoint of this
hearing but from the standpoint of the future of this Com¬
mission. Is it going to disregard the specific direction of
Congress and, by indirection under the theory of pub-
197 lie interest, censor programs?
Commissioner Robinson: The question of what is
censorship is a difficult one. Is it not an advance determina¬
tion of what shall go on? And then there is this distinction,
Mr. Strong. We have not undertaken to cehsor nor to put
some one off the air because of a particular speech, but we
run into the worthiness of a licensee and his service to the
public. It merges very rapidly into the propriety of a
license to a particular owner because he pqts on what, by
the general conventions and standards, is bad. I am not
saying that we can decide until we hear the expert testimony
about it. The Commission admits and always has that it
is a difficult subject. But let us assume that somebody is
using a broadcasting station to damn this Government. We
cannot censor him, but may we not deny him a license be¬
cause he is striking at the foundations of the American
Government? If it is proved that some medical advice is
against the public health, is not that quite analogous ?
But let us go along and hear from Dr. Young. The ruling
will be reserved for the full Commission.
Mr. Strong: I want to reserve exceptions to this type of
evidence. I want that to be a matter of record, that I re¬
serve exceptions to the admissibility of any of this type of
evidence by this gentleman or any one else.
Commissioner Robinson: Ruling is reserved. It is not
definitely made. The Commission will decide when the case
is given consideration.
198 By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Turn to page 10, Doctor, and give your expert opinion
as to the kind of information being sent oht to the public
110 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
as a result of requests over the air. A. Shall I read the
things that I take exception to?
Q. Read and comment. A. (Reading from Kansas Ex¬
hibit No. 1:) “We proceed to the spermatic cord and open
this, exposing the vas. We open the vas and prove its
potency, or free channel. None but those so familiar with
the anatomy concerned that they could safely perform this
part blindfold should attempt it. We must not cut the vas,
but incise it on its long axis; and the canal, which is very
small, must he opened. Now with our vas canal open and
its potency proven we shall borrow a nerve supply. Why?
Because we must have more nerve-energization directed
through this vas into the human gonad to produce the de¬
sired proliferation of the life-giving, energizing, vitalized
Leydig cells. Likewise we borrow’ the services of a branch
artery, and this is delicately anastamosed down alongside
the vas into the epididymis.”
Q. What is the explanation of this ? A. This is suppose 1
to be a description of a surgical operation, what is accom¬
plished by it and the results obtained.
Q. Please state to the Commission whether in your judg¬
ment as an expert there are any possibilities of this kind
of an operation being successful ? A. I would say that in
my sincere but humble opinion, sir, the procedures,
199 anatomical and surgical, that have been described
here are absolutely impossible.
Q. Is there any danger connected with this kind of an
operation? A. Well, there are naturally dangers connected
with all surgical operations.
Q. What is this—a prostate gland operation? A. No
operation other than the scrotum. The gonad referred to
is the testicle. He pretends to go down and anastamose
alongside of the vas, w r hich is the little tube wdiich leads
from the epididymis and up to the prostate—he pretends
to anastamose an artery and in that way energize. Such
an anastamosis of an artery in that position has never been,
in my opinion, accomplished in surgery, sir, and'it could
not possibly, I believe, in my humble opinion, have anything
like the effect described.
Q. This is leaning toward sexual rejuvenation? A. Yes;
and it goes on to say later with regard to the reduction of
the prostate gland. The enlargement he speaks of as a
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
Ill
tumor. It is often as big as your fist; sometii&es as big as
a coconut. To talk about the reduction of such things by
the anastamosis of a little artery which is so small that it is
often not much bigger than a hair in your head, is ridic¬
ulous. It has never been accomplished in surgery and could
not by any possibility have any effect upon the prostate
gland. j
Q. This operation referred to in this pamphlet marked
“Kansas Exhibit No. 1” has no connection with goat
glands or the goat gland operation? Ai Not at that
200 point, I believe.
Q. Is there on page 14 something with regard to
that matter? A. No; page 14 refers to the same operation.
Q. Does it refer to the four phase operation or compound
operation? A. It does refer to the compound operation;
yes. |
Q. Just read that last for our information^ A. (Read¬
ing:) “This reduction of the blood supply to the enlarging
prostate is an adjunct to the Compound Operation de¬
scribed earlier in these pages, adapted to not only reduce
the size of the prostate but to protect it in i^s important
functions, preserve rather than destroy sexual potency, and
prevent the necessity of having the gland removed.”
In that description it does refer to the transplantation of
gland tissue from other animals. i
Q. So it is connected up with that? A. YeS, sir.
Q. Go ahead. A. I have read that. I would say that the
phase four of the compound operation which contemplates
removing the gland or testicle from another animal and
transplanting it into the human individual has never been
proven to be successful in many hundreds of; experiments
that have been tried in various hospitals and institutions
all over the world. I
Commissioner Robinson: How extensively has it been
tried by the recognized medical profession?
201 The Witness: A great deal, your Honor. It has
been, of course, for many years one of the great
hopes of humanity, that aging individuals might receive
from young individuals, both human and other animals,
particularly those of great potency, such as the ram and a
few others that have great reputations in that line—that
they might receive either serums composed of tissue from
112
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
the organs or whole organs that would restore to the indi¬
vidual, the aging man, his youth and vigor and attractive¬
ness and procreative powers.
For many generations that has been talked about and
written about and laughed about and made the subject of
novels and everything of that sort, and it has received very
serious consideration from medical men because if such
were possible, almost the millennium would arrive. But,
unfortunately, the great mass of verified experiments show
that all such things are illusory, that the transfer of tissue
from one animal to another is practically never successful.
It may grow for a little while, but they very soon vanish
and disappear and the ultimate results are negligible and
useless.
Commissioner Robinson: You are speaking now of the
generally accepted view of the medical profession, sir?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
Bv Mr. Fisher:
*
Q. Then, from your observance and knowledge of the
medical profession and having read the pamphlet entitled
“Your Health”, and particularly pages 10 and 14, would
you say that the results promised there by Dr.
202 Brinkley are untrue? A. I would say, sir, that from
my own experience I could never expect any such
results whatever, that they do not seem to me to be borne
out by any extensive medical reports worthy of credence.
Q. Would you say they are a fraud upon the public—
those statements and those promises? A. Well, I would
rather not be put in that position at this point. I would say
that they are not borne out by the testimony and the experi¬
ences of the medical profession and that we would think
they were extraordinary promises to be made to people,
particularly whom he has never seen and never examined,
and that such, in my opinion, is beyond the probability of
being accurate or true.
Mr. Fisher: That is all.
Bv Mr. Ralston:
Q. Dr. Young, what about the furnishing of an addi¬
tional nerve supply that the Doctor speaks about in that
operation?
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
113
Mr. Strong: Is it nerve supply or blood supply?
Mr. Ralston: It is both.
A. He anastamoses the artery, but he speaks of the
energizing and so forth. He says that we shall “borrow”
a nerve supply.
By Mr. Ralston:
Q. What about that? A. Where he borrowed it from I
do not see, because it would be in my opinion absolutely
impossible for anybody to accomplish that.
203 Q. So you think he is making a promise that he
cannot fulfill when he promises to furnish an addi¬
tional nerve supply to the organs? A. I would think so.
Cross-examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Doctor, is it not possible to transplant nerves? A. It
is possible to move a nerve; yes. Nerves may be moved
from one termination to another, yes. That is done.
Q. Are you the author of any book on the subject of
glands ? A. I am author of quite a few books; yes, sir.
Q. Could you mention the name of any of yours? A.
One is called “Young’s Practice of Urology!”
Q. Do you know what the European experience has been
in regard to gland transplantation? A. The European ex¬
perience, sir, taken as a whole, is very decidedly and al¬
most unanimously against it.
Q. Has there been any that was not against it? A. Yes.
Q. Have you ever heard of Dr. Bornoff? A. Of France?
Yes; I know him.
Q. Do you know what his experiments have been? A. He
has made reports, sir, over a number of years which have
been seriously studied by the medical profession and have
been seriously considered by a great commission in Eng¬
land, all of which have been against him and to the
204 effect that he had not proven his case and that his
experiments were not verified and not trustworthy.
Q. If I understand your testimony, it is fhat so far as
you know it is not possible to accomplish what this book
on “Your Health” says, so far as your experience and
knowledge go? A. Yes, sir. !
8—5240a !
114
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Mr. Strong: That is all.
Mr. Holland: May I ask a question, Your Honor? What
is the procedure here with reference to forming your rec¬
ord regarding objections? Must you make your objection
and take your exception, and also at the conclusion of the
witness’ testimony move to have it stricken?
Mr. Fisher: The Commission has reserved ruling on
this.
Commissioner Robinson: If it were not reserved you
could take exceptions. Under the provision for appeal to
the Court of Appeals, personally I think that is unneces¬
sary. I think you can take knowledge of the record whether
you mention it here or not. Anyhow, I understand you to
object to this if finally admitted, and the record shows that.
Mr. Fisher: And the Commission has reserved ruling.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. With regard to the prescriptions over the radio, do
you know of any of them? A. No; I do not know of any—
yes; I do know of one. One is to have a cleansing
205 effect and the other for liver trouble and consti¬
pation.
Q. You would not think with regard to that latter that
it would be impossible for a doctor to prescribe over the
radio? A. Yes, sir; I would.
Q. As a matter of fact, do not doctors prescribe cleansing
things for almost every disease, as a first proposition? A.
No; they do not.
Q. Don’t they take the position that the first aid to health
is to be sure that the alimentary canal is clear? A. No.
Q. I guess I didn’t use the right term. A. That is all
right. It is very excellent for a lawyer.
Q. The intestinal canal? A. No. If a person comes to
you and says that as far as his gastro-intestinal tract is
concerned he is regular and normal, that he has a normal
movement every day, we do not deplete him by giving him
strong purging things. We try to find where his trouble
is by a very careful examination.
Q. Do you know the nature of this medicine that is pre¬
scribed? A. I have not the least idea.
Q. Did you ever prescribe over the telephone, Doctor?
Did you ever have anybody call you on the telephone, but
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
115
you did not want to go out in the evening or night, and toid
them over the telephone what to do ? A. I think I
206-211 have in a few instances.
Commissioner Robinson: Some one you never had treated
before?
The Witness : Oh, no.
Commissioner Robinson: You knew the person?
The Witness: I knew the person and had studied his
case.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. If they told you that some other doctor had described
their symptoms as so and so, would you then prescribe if
they said the other doctor was not available, or something
like that ? A. Well, it is difficult to say what: you would do
until the proposition is put to you. I have not actually had
that proposition put to me.
Mr. Strong: That is all.
(Whereupon, at 5:15 o’clock p. m., an adjournment was
taken until tomorrow, Wednesday, May 21, 1930, at 10
o’clock a. m.)
212 Mrs. E. S. Shovlain was called as a witness for and
on behalf of the applicant and, being first duly sworn,
testified as follows:
Direct examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. AVhat is your name? A. Mrs. E. S. Shovlain.
Q. Where do you reside? A. Kearney, Nebraska.
Q. Where is Kearney, Nebraska, located with reference
to the Kansas line? A. I couldn’t tell you tjiat. It is 200
miles west of Omaha.
Q. Are you a listener to Station KFKB?|
Q. For how long? A. Since Oetobe:
213 Q. Do you enjoy its programs? A.
much.
Q. All of its programs? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you ever heard anything objectionable or
indecent, obscene or false broadcast over that station? A.
I never have.
A. Yes, sir.
r.
Yes, sir, very
7 w
116
KKKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Have you heard the medical lectures? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you heard the question box? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you enjoy that? A. I certainly do.
Q. Were you interested in the matters broadcast with
reference to the question box? A. Yes, sir; very much.
Q. Were you generally interested? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were neighbors of yours, to your knowledge, inter¬
ested in that question box? A. Well, not so much; but 1
called their attention to it, and they got interested.
Q. So when their attention was called to it, they were
interested? A. Y^es, sir; they certainly were.
Q. Are you here at your own expense? A. I cer-
tainlv am.
*
214 Q. You paid your own expenses? A. I have not
paid them yet. I have my check book in my hand
bag to write the check for it.
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. You paid the railroad, did you not? A. I haven’t
paid anything yet. I haven’t separated my bill-
Q. You paid the railroad in getting down here? A. Yes,
sir; I certainly did.
Q. Because I know they do not give you any time. A.
Xo; hardly.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Have you been offered any inducement or remunera¬
tion of any kind to come here and testify in this matter ?
A. Well, yes.
Q. What inducement ? A. Dr. Brinkley wanted his satis¬
fied listeners and patients to come here.
0. I know; I mean, anv monev inducement. Has anv-
body offered to pay you to come down here? A. Xo, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: I think, Mr. Strong, that this
Commission will assume that this licensee is producing wit¬
nesses as the ordinary litigant does. The case has a
broader view, to me, than all that, and 1 see a cumulative
line of testimonv here now.
Mr. Strong: We are about through with that, your
Honor. I have no more questions.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
117
Commissioner Robinson: The point is this, as I men¬
tioned yesterday, and I want you to deyelop it and I
215 want to hear you on it. Could we even i allow—think¬
ing of Dr. Young’s testimony yesterday—Johns
Hopkins to use the air in this way? That is another school
of medical thought. Is it in the public interest for us to
give out these frequencies for what is, in a sense, a private
use, having some public relation, but, after all, for the up¬
building of a particular medical institution or medical
school of thought? j
That is the way, thinking of this case over night, it is
flowing in my mind. Maybe my legal concept is not right,
but I think it is.
Mr. Strong: If 3 'our Honor please, matters of public
health are in the public interest. I think that if there is
anything we are all interested in it is in our health and the
prolonging of our lives.
Commissioner Robinson: Yes; but that goes also to
other things—agricultural occupations, the American Fed¬
eration of Labor—and they had that question here. There
are so many things that after all pertain to the public; but
the development of them is primarily private income and
private money. That is only a suggestion, now.
Mr. Strong: I do not know the total amount that the
states and the Federal Government are appropriating and
paying out for public health on the theory th&t it is a mat¬
ter of public concern and public interest, but I do not think
there is any question but what it runs into the millions. It
is a matter that all of us are concerned with, not only by
reason of its relation to ourselves, but anything that af¬
fects our neighbor may indirectly affect us.
216 If the State governments and the County govern¬
ments and the City governments and the Federal gov¬
ernment are spending money in the public interest for mat¬
ters of public health, and the people are interested in those
matters and desirous of being informed, it seems to me
that questions of health transcend the meijely personal.
To be sure, we have professional men, doctors, who charge
money for this particular service. They charge plenty; but
there are people who are so unfortunate that they cannot
pay their prices. There are also people so situated that
they cannot always get a doctor when they need one. I
i
118
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
have had my own experience trying to get a doctor for my
little boy at 11 o’clock at night, and I called three doctors
in this town and none would come. They said, “Take him
to the Children’s hospital.” I was afraid to attempt to
move him, because he was in a serious condition. I finally
got a doctor over the telephone and he prescribed, although
he had not seen my little boy for three years. He had seen
him when he was born. He said he would be there in the
morning. I would have been very glad if I could have got
information at that hour of the night to relieve our minds.
We thought the bov was going to die. The lavman gets
frightened over matters of that kind when perhaps he
should not.
Here we have a rural state. You cannot compare rural
Kansas to Washington, D. C. Your Honor is familiar with
conditions in a rural state. He is familiar with the ability
of the profession out in those smaller towns; with
217 the fact that a country doctor in the past has been
going out at all hours of the day and night and in all
kinds of weather; but he is doing it less and less. It is a
serious matter to ask a doctor to drive 15 miles in the coun¬
try with the roads almost impassable with snow and mud,
or with a blizzard raging.
The counties out in Kansas are, at public expense, en¬
couraging hospital centers, county hospitals, and employ¬
ing doctors there. The states are trying to meet this situa¬
tion and this problem of health. They have limited money.
The legislature does not always find it possible to ap¬
propriate the money necessary. The Federal Government
only a few years ago had maternity aid. They had other
forms of special aid to the states and counties. They want
to extend that, but Congress did not do it, because of lack
of monev.
f
Here is a station that is broadcasting matters relating to
public health information to these people.
Commissioner Robinson: That is very fine if it is merely
that—and it may be merely that when we get through with
the case-
Mr. Strong: Our affidavits are to that effect.
Commissioner Robinson: But is the station simply in¬
creasing the revenue of a particular doctor or hospital ? I
w^ant vou to show us-
FEDEKAL RADIO COMMISSION.
119
Mr. Strong: I think that so far this station has been
more of a liability to this man than an asset, and to this
corporation. In the days when he first started broad¬
casting he did it because he first found the patients
218 in that hospital were interested, and| the shut-ins,
and there was a demand for it and it gradually grew.
These broadcasting stations do not just spring up over
night, particularly one like this, which has been a broad¬
casting station since-
Commissioner Robinson: A great many more would
spring up over night if this Commission did hot hold them
down.
Mr. Strong: I think this Commission should hold them
down; but when there is a demand such as this which has
built up this station-
Commissioner Robinson: Is this a private mouthpiece?
That is what I want to know—or is it a public interest
station? I am not drawing a line against Dr. Brinkley.
He may have some different medical idea^ from Johns
Hopkins or Mayo Brothers or the Battle Creek Sanitarium.
Could we give a frequency to Battle Creek for Dr. Kel¬
logg to say, “These methods are the thing. Please come
here and patronize us”?
I want to direct counsel along that line, because I think
that is the issue. There are 120 millions of people in this
nation, and only 89 channels for the use of them all. Those
89 ought to be for the use of all and not for hny particular
business enterprise.
Examination on behalf of the Commission.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. How did you find out that a hearing was to be held
in this matter? A. Dr. Brinkley announced it.
219 Q. He what? A. He said—well, he wished those
who were interested in this work to come here to
witness for him.
Q. You heard that over the radio? A. Yes. sir.
Q. Was it Dr. Brinkley talking when you heard that?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You stated that he was urging his listeners or patients
to appear-
120
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Mr. Strong - : Wait a minute. She did not say he was urg¬
ing them.
o
Mr. Brown: She made the statement that she was in¬
duced to come here because of the representations that they
wanted listeners and patients to appear.
Mr. Strong: She did not state that there was any urging.
Mr. Brown: She just stated now that she was urged by
Dr. Brinklev over the radio-
&
The Witness: No, sir: not urged.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. What was it then? A. Well, he didn’t urge any one.
He said those who were willing to go. No; there was no
urging.
Q. Are you both a listener and a patient of Dr. Brink¬
ley’s? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How did you become a patient of Dr. Brinkley’s? A.
Well, I listened to him four months and I heard my own
advice to other people—I had listened to him every day,
nearlv, and I would hear mv own case advised to
* 7
220 other people.
Q. Did you write to him requesting any informa¬
tion regarding your case? A. No; I did not.
Q. But you heard him stating other cases over the radio,
and you- A. Just the same as mine.
Q. And you thought his statement with respect to theirs
might apply to your case? A. I knew that it applied to me.
Q. Did you have any prescription that you heard sug¬
gested over the radio by Dr. Brinkley? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What prescriptions did you have filled? A. No. 50
and No. 62.
Q. Where did you have those prescriptions filled? A. At
my home town.
Q. By whom? A. By Hoye’s drug store.
Q. Was there any particular reason why you went to that
drug store ? A. It was a cooperating drug store.
Q. Does Brinkley or any one state over the radio who the
cooperating druggists are? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you heard over the radio that Hoye’s drug store
in Kearney, Nebraska, was one of the cooperating drug
stores? A. Yes, sir.
221 Q. How much did you pay for prescription No. 50;
do you remember? A. $3.50.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
121
Q. Did you have it filled more than once? j A. Twice.
Q. You paid the druggist $3.50? A. Yes, sir. j
Q. At two different times? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you have prescription No. 62 filled at this drug
store? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How much did you pay for that? A. I think, $1.75; I
would not say for sure.
Q. Did you have that filled more than pnce? A. No;
just once. j
Q. Did you have any information as to the amount that
Dr. Brinkley would get from this prescription No. 50 that
you paid for at $3.50? A. No, sir.
Q. You did not know whether he got anything from that
or not, any revenue from that? A. No, sir; I did not.
Q. What particular part of the radio broadcasting over
Station KFKB are you interested in the mopt? A. In the
medical question box.
Q. You started last October listening in on this station?
A. I don’t think I heard the medical question box
222 until November.
Q. November? A. I think so.
i
By Commissioner Robinson:
I
Q. Are there any other features on this station that inter¬
est you other than the medical question box? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What are they—music? A. Yes, sir; I like the music,
and I like it all.
Q. What is the comparison of the service in proportion to
time aside from this medical feature? A. Will you state
that question again, please, sir?
Q. I say, how much other material is theire on the sta¬
tion than the medical feature? Is that the main thing, or
is it just an incident to the general program? A. It is the
main thing with me.
Q. Yes; but have you ever listened all during the day?
I would like to know what this program is, what it is for.
It may be a program like ordinary stations have—enter¬
tainment, instruction in agriculture and home-making.
How much of other things than medicine does it have on?
A. I will tell you, I am not familiar with the rest of the pro¬
gram. I have heard it all, but my children take care of the
musical parts when I was at home. I listened to the
122
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
medical question box and I turned the radio off as soon as
Dr. Brinkley was through talking.
Bv Mr. Brown:
Q. Do you listen practically every day to the medical
question box? A. Yes, sir.
223 Q. Howmanv times a dav? A. I trv to listen three
times a day.
Q. What is the first time in the morning when this goes
on? A. 9:30.
Q. And the next time? A. 12:30.
Q. And the next time ? A. 2:30,1 believe.
Mr. Brown: That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Lee McChesney was called as a witness for and on behalf
of the applicant and, being first duly sworn, testified as fol¬
lows :
Direct examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. State your full name. A. Lee McChesney.
Q. What is your business ? A. Bank cashier.
Q. "Where are you located? A. Milford, Kansas.
Q. How long have you been there ? A. Since 1916.
Q. Were you there before Dr. Brinkley came to Milford?
A. Yes, sir; two years.
Q. Do you know about the conditions that existed there
immediately prior to his coming with reference to
224 whether or not there was a doctor present in Mil¬
ford? A. We had no doctor.
Q. Do you know whether or not they advertised for a
doctor? A. We did.
Q. What was the situation when you did not have a doc¬
tor there? A. We were compelled to get doctors from
other towns.
Q. About how far away was the nearest town? A. Junc¬
tion City was 12 miles; Wakefield, nine.
Q. What was the condition of the roads at that time? A.
Verv bad.
ul
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
123
Q. Were there times when the roads were impassable in
stormy weather? A. During the winter time; yes, sir.
Q. Do you hold any relationship with reference to Sta¬
tion KFKB? A. Yes, sir; stockholder.
By Commissioner Robinson:
*
Q. Is that a profitable investment? A. I think it is.
Q. Would it be profitable without this Brinkley medical
institution? 1 cannot help but get right down to the way
my mind is running in this case. A. I bought it in good
faith. i
Q. I know; but can you operate a station there without
this medical institution? Is it that that brings this
225 station its profit; or is it the agricultural talks, the
stock market, music, entertainment, sponsoring by
certain commercial interests; or where is your source of
revenue? A. I would say, from the hospital.;
I
By Mr. Strong: j
I
Q. Do you carry the deposits of Station KFKB in your
bank? A. Yes, sir.
Q. The checks coming in from these drug stores—-you
have heard the testimony with regard to drug stores? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. How are they handled? A. They are credited to the
KFKB Broadcasting Association.
Q. About what do those range a week? What is the total
amount a week approximately? A. I have no figures, but I
would say approximately $600 to $800.
Q. A week? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are you a listener to Station KFKB? A. Yes, sir,
some; not regularly.
Q. Do you enjoy the programs? A. Very inuch.
Q. How do they compare with other stations broadcast¬
ing out in that region? A. They compare favorably—bet¬
ter, I would say, than lots of them, a better variety.
226 Q. Is the Mrs. McChesney who broadcasts over
the station, “The Tell Me a Story Lady”, related to
you? A. Wife. I
Q. Do you know what that “Tell Me a Story” hour is
like? A. It is more for the children.
Q. About how long does it last ? A. Fifteen minutes.
124 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. What is the nature of it ! A. It is just stories for the
children. It is more of a children’s hour, stories for the
young folks.
Q. Is there anything objectionable or indecent or false
in that ? A. I would sav not.
*
Q. Have you ever heard anything objectionable or in¬
decent or false from this station? A. No; I have not.
Q. Do you have any children? A. One.
Q. Is there anything that you would object to the child
hearing over that radio? A. No, sir.
Mr. Strong: That is all.
Examination on behalf of the Commission.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. How many members are there in this cooperative
druggists’ association? A. I don’t know.
Q. Who is president of that association? A. Of
227 the Broadcast Association?
Q. No; the cooperative druggists. A. I don’t know
anything about it.
Q. Do you know who signs the checks? I believe you tes¬
tified that between $600 and $800 a week came in from this
source. A. They have a rubber stamp. They are turned
over by Dr. Brinklev.
Q. To KFKB by Dr. Brinkley? A. To the KFKB Broad¬
casting Association, and deposited to their account; yes.
Q. Who actually signs those checks that are turned over?
A. The secretary of the Broadcasting Association.
Q. Who do those checks come from—this $600 to $800 a
week? Where does that come from? A. The secretary-
treasurer of the Broadcasting Association brings them to
the bank.
Q. Is there a large number of checks? A. Once a week
they generally deposit.
Bv Commissioner Robinson:
Q. Here is a witness who testifies to paying $3.50 for a
prescription. Do you know what portion of that $3.50
would come to that station? A. No; I don’t know anything
about that.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
125
Q. But evidently some, I take it, by these remittances that
are deposited with you. A. I couldn’t say how much of it.
Q. In other words, the source of that deposit is
228 from these drug stores, is it not? A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. Mrs. McChesney, who has that 15 minutes, I believe
you stated, on the air—is she paid anything by the station
for going on the air? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know how much per week? A. $30 a month.
Q. You own 100 shares of the stock of this corporation,
do you not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You are one of the incorporators? A. No, I bought it
afterwards.
Q. Who is president of the corporation? A. I think,
Thomas B. Kennedy of Junction City.
Q. Do you know whether or not Dr. Brinkley is paid any¬
thing for delivering lectures? A. I could not say.
Q. You do not know whether he is paid anything or not?
A. No, sir.
Q. You know that he has considerable time on the air over
that station? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who is the treasurer of the Broadcasting Corpora¬
tion? A. Mr. Wilson.
Q. He is also secretary? A. Secretary-treasurer.
229 Q. You are one of the directors? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many directors are there ? A. I believe,
six or eight.
Q. Is Mr. Harry E. Montgomery also a director ? A. I
believe so.
Q. Is R. B. Feegan a director? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Major Hearst? A. Yes.
Q. W. H. Emerson—is he a director of the corporation ?
A. I couldn’t say.
Q. Do you know W. H. Emerson of Manhattan, Kansas ?
A. Yes. |
Q. Has your corporation had any meetings of the board
of directors since it was organized? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know Walter Brown? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is he a director of the corporation? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is Dr. Brinkley a director? A. Yes, sir.
126
KEKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Is M. T. Brinkley a director? A. Yes, sir—a stock¬
holder; I suppose, a director.
Q. She is Dr. Brinkley’s wife? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When was the last meeting of the board of di-
230 rectors of the Broadcasting Corporation? A. I
couldn’t tell vou the date of that.
Q. Was it a recent meeting? A. It has been about a
month ago.
Q. And the revenues derived from the Broadcasting
Corporation are deposited in your bank? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You do not know of any other depositary that they
have except that bank? A. Just ours, I am sure.
Q. And from these drug stores the corporation gets be¬
tween $600 and $800 per week ? A. I would say that, ap¬
proximately.
Q. How much do they get from Dr. Brinkley’s hospital
each week? A. I have no figures on that; I couldn’t tell
you.
Q. Have you any idea at all on that? A. No, sir, I do
not know.
Q. Have you any ideas as to the average weekly deposits
in your bank from the Broadcasting Corporation? A.
$600 to $800 a week.
Q. Each week? A. Yes.
Q. That is the total deposits from the Broadcasting sta¬
tion? A. From these druggists’ checks.
Q. Is that the only revenue that the station gets? A.
Well, I don’t pay any attention to that. They deposit on^e
a week and it runs—maybe some are druggists and
231 mavbe others. I couldn’t sav about all of them.
%>
Mr. Brown: That is all.
Redirect examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. What is the standing of KFKB Broadcasting Cor¬
poration financially? Do they pay their bills promptly?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is their credit standing good? A. Very good.
Mr. Strong: I have no other questions.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
127
Cross-examination.
I
By Mr. Ralston:
Q. What is the name of your bank? A. State Bank of
Milford.
Q. Does Dr. Brinkley borrow money from your bank?
Mr. Holland: We object to that as being wholly imma¬
terial.
Mr. Ralston: It shows interest.
Mr. Strong: It shows what interest?
Mr. Ralston: Of the gentleman who is testifying.
Commissioner Robinson: Is yours the only bank there?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: I will exclude that. I have a
great deal of sympathy with any one who has to deal with
one bank and borrow from it.
Mr. Strong: Do vou know as to whethet* or not vour
bank is the only bank with which the association deals?
The Witness: I think it is.
I
Mr. Fisher: Did vou buv vour stock from Dr.
mJ V
232 Brinkley in the Broadcasting Corporation?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
Mr. Fisher: That is all.
(Witness excused.)
|
Clarence L. Lacer was called as a witness for and on
behalf of the applicant and, being first duly sworn, testi¬
fied as follows:
j
Direct examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. What is your name? A. Clarence L. Lacer.
Q. W 7 here do you reside? A. Milford, Kansas.
Q. WTiat is your business? A. Railroad agent.
Q. Do you listen over Station KFKB? A. Quite a bit.
Q. Do you enjoy the programs? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you been in Milford;? A. Slightly
over 12 years.
Q. Were you there prior to the time Dr. Brinkley came
to Milford? A. No, sir.
128 KEKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Do you enjoy the programs generally? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How do they compare with programs of other sta¬
tions in that territory? A. I think they are better.
233 Mr. Strong: That is all.
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. Do you hear the Topeka station? A. Some.
Q. Senator Capper’s station? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How does it compare with the program of KFKB?
A. Well, I like Capper’s station, hut I think ours is better.
Q. Does the Capper station solicit subscriptions to the
various Capper publications over the station? A. I have
never heard it.
Q. They simply announce that it is owned by the Capper
farm paper, and that is about the only advertising of his
personally, is it not ? A. That is all I ever heard.
Q. How much of Station KFKB’s time is devoted to the
advertisement or personal interest of the Brinkley medical
concern? A. Well, he doesn’t directly advertise hardly
any that I know of. He mentions the Brinkley hospital,
the Broadcasting Association, and such matter as that.
Q. You have heard him solicit patients to the institution,
have you not? A. I don’t remember that.
Q. Well, an indirect solicitation. There is evidence here
that people do go there out of this broadcasting.
—. Do you hear the S't. Louis station ? A. Yes, sir.
234 Q. Do you get Chicago? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How does the program compare with WENR
and WLS? A. Very favorably. I would consider them
at least equal to either one. Our reception is poor from
Chicago or St. Louis unless the weather is very good.
Q. It is usually good at night, is it not? A. Not this
time of year.
Q. It would seem that you could get Lincoln, Nebraska,
very clearly. Do you get them? A. We do, very clearly.
Q. How far is Lincoln from Milford? A. Possibly a
hundred and eighty or a hundred and ninety miles.
Examination on behalf of the Commission.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. You say you are the railroad agent out there? A.
Yes, sir.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
129
Q. Did you come here with the whole party ? A. Yes.
Q. What railroad? A. Union Pacific to Kansas City;
Santa Fe to Chicago; and B. & 0.
Q. Is that the way they all came? A. All that I know
of.
Q. All came in one Pullman? A. Just about.
235 Q. Did you arrange the Pullman for them? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. You say you receive this program. How often a
day do you receive the program from KFKB; about how
many hours a day do you put in on it? A. I have a small
crystal set that I have turned on practically all the time,
at the office.
Q. Then you turn to this program most of the time? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. You like the program? A. I sure do.
Q. How much of the time is put in by health talks and
lectures by Dr. Brinkley and the like? A. I would judge
that lectures and health talks—probably two hours a day.
That is just an estimate.
Q. The question box and all ? A. Yes.
Q. Two hours? A. About two hours.
Q. What part of the program do you like the best? A.
I enjoy—he has a very fine orchestra. I enjoy the orches¬
tra and the old-fashioned numbers.
Q. How much of the time is put in on that? A. The
Q. You say you receive this program, j How often
musical program must be around 12 hourd a day. Of
course I don’t listen to all of them.
Q. Do they make any announcement in regard to who
sponsors them or pays for them? A. Occasionally.
Q. What are those announcements that you have
236 heard? A. I don’t particularly remeipber any cer¬
tain one.
Q. The Brinkley hospital? A. I couldn’t sav that I re¬
member one of that. |
Q. You do not remember that announcement ever being
made? A. No, sir.
Q. You listen to this question box, do you nbt? A. Once
in a while.
Q. Have you ever secured any of these prescriptions
there? A. I have taken one.
Q. You heard about that over the radio? A. Yes, sir.
9—5240a
130
KERB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Do you remember what number that was! A. Not
the number; I remember the medicine.
Q. What kind of medicine was it? A. Liver and stom¬
ach medicine.
Q. Have you received any of the literature? A. No, sir.
Q. Have you heard him talk about the literature over
the radio ? A. I don’t remember.
Bv Mr. Brown:
*
Q. Where did you have this prescription filled ? A. At
the local drug store.
Q. What was the name of that druggist ? A. Mr. J. A.
Seheuren.
Q. How much did you pay for that? A. $3.50.
237 Q. You just got one bottle? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How did you come to go to Mr. Seheuren’s to
get that? A. It would be natural for us to patronize our
home drug store. That is the only reason.
Q. Is he the only one there? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you know whether or not he was a member of any
cooperative druggists’ association? A. No; I did not.
Q. You did not know anything about that? A. No, sir.
Mr. Brown: That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Strong: I will call Mr. Seheuren.
Commissioner Robinson: This is the same cumulative
line. There is a rule of evidence about that.
Mr. Strong: We have an affidavit from the druggists.
Commissioner Robinson: If this is on another line you
might-
Mr. Strong: This is simply another druggist. It is cumu¬
lative on the affidavit of the druggist.
Commissioner Robinson: Let him testify.
James A. Seheuren was called as a witness for and on
behalf of the applicant and, being first duly sworn, testified
as follows:
Direct examination.
By Mr. Strong:
238 Q. State your full name. A. James A. Seheuren.
Q. What is your business? A. Druggist.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
131
Q. Where located? A. Milford, Kansas.
Q. Is your drug store in any way connected with Station
KFKB? A. No, sir. j
Q. Are you a stockholder or director in that corporation?
A. No, sir.
Q. Is it connected with any of the Brinkley hospitals ? A.
No, sir.
Q. Or with Dr. Brinkley? A. No, sir.
Q. Or with his wife ? A. No, sir.
Q. You are an independent druggist there in Milford?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you belong to this Brinkley association? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Do you fill these prescriptions, the numbers of them
that are broadcast over the radio? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you ever had a complaint about them? A. No,
sir.
Q. Is there very much of a demand for them? A.
239 A very big demand; yes, sir.
Q. What do they pay for No. 50? A. There are
two No. 50’s: one for women and one for men. One is $3.50;
the other is $3.75.
Q. Do you send in part of that to either Df. Brinkley or
the KFKB Broadcasting Association? A. I do not; no, sir.
Q. You do not send any of that? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you keep the entire amount? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you send any of the money from the other pre¬
scriptions to Dr. Brinkley or the association? A. I send
one. I can’t think of the number. It is a preparation for
psoriasis. However, there is not much demand for that.
Q. Do you know anything about the class of drugs in
these prescriptions? A. Yes.
Q. Are they good or bad? A. Very good.
Q. How do they compare with other drugs usually pre¬
scribed by physicians? A. In my opinion, they are a little
superior.
Q. How do they compare with drugs that are advertised?
A. Far superior.
Q. Who manufactures these drugs? A. We buy
240 our specific tinctures from Lloyds, principally.
Q. Do you buy any from Parke-Davis? A. Some.
Q. From any other manufacturers? A. The main pre¬
scriptions, No. 60 and 50 and 62—those are all Lloyds.
132 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Mr. Strong: That is all.
Examination on behalf of the Commission.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. Are you the only druggist in Milford? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are you a registered pharmacist? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you been a registered pharmacist? A.
About 12 years.
Q. I believe that you stated that you were a member of
the Pharmaceutical Association? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many members has that association? A. I have
no idea.
Q. Does that include the pharmacists of the State of
Kansas? A. The pharmacists of Kansas, Iowa, Missouri
and Nebraska.
Q. What is the actual name of that association? A. I
think it is the Brinkley Pharmaceutical Association.
Q. Do you furnish any of the drugs of the Brinkley Hos¬
pital in Milford? A. Yes, sir; what they require
241 from me.
Q. Have you any idea how much each month that
account would amount to?
Mr. Strong: I would like to ask the purpose of this line of
questions.
Mr. Brown: He stated he did not receive any of the $3.50
or the $3.75. I am entitled to inquire into this feature of it.
The Witness: Our account with Dr. Brinkley is merely
his requirements for the hospital, whatever he requires. It
may be that he yrould require a serum or it may be that he
would require some drug that he happened to be short of
for operative purposes, and we supply that.
By Mr. Holland:
Q. Does he broadcast those requirements to you? A. No.
Mr. Holland: I move that that be stricken out—all this
testimony about furnishing drugs to the hospital.
Commissioner Robinson: It may be admitted as relating
to any interest the witness may have.
Mr. Holland: I note an exception.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
133
Commissioner Robinson: Merely as to whether he is an
interested witness or not.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. You stated, Mr. Seheuren, that there were two No.
50’s, one for men and one for women, one costing $3.50 and
the other $3.75. Which costs $3.50—the one for the men
or the one for the women? A. There are two prep-
242 arations: one intended for men or women, which is
entirely laxative; the other, for women, contains a
urinative tonic compound with the laxative.
Q. That costs $3.75? A. Yes.
I
By Mr. Fisher: j
Q. Mr. Seheuren, you are a member of this Pharmaceuti¬
cal Association? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is it called the Brinkley Pharmaceutical Association?
A. Yes, sir. j
Q. And the method as used by Dr. Brinkley is to answer
the question box over the radio and tell the patients to get
a certain numbered prescription; is that correct? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. And they come to your store or to any other that they
desire—but your store and members of this association are
the only ones that carry these prescriptions? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Does not Dr. Brinkley send out a list of the prescrip¬
tions to the druggists and information regarding them from
time to time? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you ever receive any of those lists? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I hand you herewith a list of prescriptions and a let¬
ter from Dr. Brinkley regarding this matter, and ask you
to identify it ? Is that the matter that comes to you ?
243 These prescriptions that you have been describing—
are they not attached right after that letter? That
letter is signed by Dr. Brinkley, is it not? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are not those a list of the prescriptions that you have
been receiving?
Mr. Strong: Just look them all over before you answer.
Mr. Fisher: Yes; look them over. They are numbered
from 50, I think, to one hundred and somethi
correct list-
ng-
Is that a
134
KEKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Mr. Holland: I suggest that the witness be given time to
go through the papers.
Mr. Fisher: He is on the last page.
The Witness: It is very correct; yes.
Mr. Fisher: At this time we wish to introduce it as Com¬
mission’s Exhibit A.
Mr. Holland : The witness has stated that this letter is
signed by Dr. Brinkley. It is not signed by anybody.
Mr. Fisher: I asked him if the name signed was Dr.
Brinklev’s, which it is.
Mr. Holland; It is in typewriting. I have no objection to
this going in, but it is not a signed letter.
(The document referred to, headed “The Brinkley Hos¬
pital, Established 1917, Milford, Geary County, Kansas,”
was thereupon marked “Commission’s Exhibit A.”)
Mr. Fisher: I want to cross examine the witness in re¬
gard to certain prescriptions he has testified to in order to
connect it up with radio.
244 The letter is written on the letter head of the
Brinkley Hospital, operating radio KFKB Broad¬
casting Station, and reads as follows:
“Milford, Kansas, April 1, 1930.
“Fellow Druggists: The question has been asked of me
what to do with prescription 114 that is already filled and
bottled. If you will pour off 10 drams of this prescription
and add 10 drams of cudbear, you will have the men’s pre¬
scription #50. This subjects you to no loss whatever.
“A doctor friend informs me a travelling salesman has
shown him formula #50 for women given him by one of
my druggists. Who is the traitor?
“Don’t forget to get your petitions in to the Federal
Radio Commission for more power and longer hours for
KFKB.
“Don’t forget to get your telegrams in to us once or
twice a week to be read over the radio to send business in
to your store.”
Commissioner Robinson: Right in that connection: tele¬
grams and insistence to this Commission even through
Senators and Congressmen cannot be influential with it.
The Commission must decide on sworn facts. And yet
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
135
every day from all parts of this country it seems that sta¬
tions are trying to flood us with telegrams and letters. It
is wholly out of place.
Mr. Fisher: Do not forget, your Honor, in this, though,
it says to send telegrams to the radio station in order that
they may broadcast out the information to enlarge
245 the business of the drug stores.
Commissioner Robinson: We can only decide
these things upon the doctrine of public convenience, in¬
terest and necessity and upon the facts submitted to this
Commission—an administrative body, it is; true, and yet
the matters coming before it call for judicial determination
just as a court must decide an issue.
Mr. Fisher: Further:
“Be sure and have a good radio in your store. If you
don’t have one, get one. You will be surprised at the peo¬
ple who will come in to listen to the Question Box and
make purchases before leaving.”
Commissioner Robinson: I ought to modify my remarks.
Some stations seem to think that this Commission can be
lobbied and that a lobby can control five sworn officials of
the people. I am not criticising your station, but I want
to call your attention to that practice. It is good for the
Western Union and the Post Office Department, but nobody
else.
Mr. Holland: And the stockholders of those companies.
Commissioner Robinson: It puts quite a strain on the
clerical force here merely to be polite and acknowledge
receipt.
Bv Mr. Fisher:
Q. Now, Mr. Seheuren, I believe you testified that there
was only one prescription that you sent in to the hospital
or to Dr. Brinkley for? A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is No. 50? A. No, sir.
246 Q. Do you remember which number that was?
A. No, sir. Let me see the list and Twill show it to
you. I called it by name. (After referring to Commis¬
sion’s Exhibit A.) It is No. 69.
Q. How much do you remit from that to the hospital or
company? A. We charge $5 for it. j
136
Ki'KB BKOADCASTIXG ASSOC1ATIOX, IXC., VS.
Q. And you remit $2.50 as shown by the exhibit? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. You do not remit any from No. 50? A. No, sir.
Q. But you do remit $2.50 from No. 69? A. Yes.
Q. To whom do you remit that? A. I sent it to the
broadcasting station—no; I will take that back. I sent it
direct to Dr. Brinkley.
Q. Dr. J. R. Brinkley? A. Yes.
Commissioner Robinson: Do the other members of this
druggists’ association do the same thing?
The Witness: I have no idea. I am so close to Dr.
Brinkley that I just make my check out. I don’t know
who receives it.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. But your checks are made out to Dr. Brinkley? A.
Yes.
Q. You have never had occasion to investigate the
247 endorsements on them and to find out who they
eventually went to? A. No, sir.
Q. This says the Milford Drug Store retails this—is that
your drug store? A. Yes, sir.
Q. For $5 for four ounces and “pays me $2.50. Let your
conscience be your guide. I am not asking for it.”
—. You sav that is the onlv one ? A. Yes.
•>
Q. Referring to prescription 93 in Commission’s Exhibit
A, at the end of it it is stated:
“This retails for $10 per bottle, and it is surely worth
it to anybody who has a tapeworm. The Milford drug¬
gist”—-
That is you, is it not ? A. Yes.
Q. —“gives me $5 on each bottle sold: you need not give
me anything unless you want to.” Is that a mistake? A.
No; that is very correct. But at no time have I ever sold
any.
Q. I see. You have never sold any, but if you did you
would give him something on that? A. I would; yes.
Mr. Fisher: I think that is all.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
137
By Commissioner Robinson:
i
Q. Your drugs are worth considerable, are they not? A.
That prescription 67 is a very valuable preparation.
248 It requires a great deal of care, and itj probably con¬
sumes 48 hours to make a four-ounce bottle.
Q. Of course you are going to charge, fitst, for the in¬
gredients and for your own services, and then you add on
$5 for this? A. No, sir. That is the complete cost of it.
Q. It is at a loss to you if you give him $5? A. No. I
gave him $2.50.
Q. I am talking about the $5 one. A; That is the
psoriasis. I imagine that prescription would probably cost
close to $2. I
Q. But that is a doctor’s fee added on beyond the cost
of the drug? A. It is just an agreement between us.
Q. Which means the drugs and the pharmacist’s knowl¬
edge and the time in compounding, so that it is a doctor’s
fee and a prescription fee; is that it? A. I really would
not figure it that way. If we figured it that way we would
have to get considerably more for it.
Q. If I wrote out such a prescription and signed myself
“M. D.”, and you observed I had a right to use that, it
would cost me $5 less? A. If you wrnre a doctor I wmuld
give it to you if you handed me a prescription.
Q. If I brought it from my personal physician? A. If
you brought it in yourself. However, if you wanted it for
a patient we would expect you to collect vour fee from the
patient, and then we in turn would collect our fee.
249 Q. Of course the only relevancy it has is the use
of the medium of the air for that sort of service. I
am not deciding whether it is an appropriate or a legal one
or not. A. I understand.
Redirect examination.
; !
By Mr. Strong:
|
Q. Are you familiar with the ingredients of patent prepa¬
rations? A. Slightly; yes.
Q. What is the proportionate cost to them of the final
selling cost ? A. I believe it is generally estimated that the
actual cost of patent medicines is in the advertising.
138 KKKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. How do the ingredients in these Brinkley prescrip¬
tions compare with those in patent medicines? A. They
are far superior, for the simple reason that his prescrip¬
tions are not “fool proof”. We consider all patent medi¬
cines “fool proof”, for the simple reason that they must be.
Q. They have a small percentage of drugs placed in
them? A. Rather small; yes.
Q. What is the beneficial effect generally? A. They
generally—it would all depend on the nature of the drugs
and what thev are intended for.
Q. Generally does it require a large quantity of patent
medicine to accomplish a given result—I mean, a number of
bottles and long continued use? A. I am not in
250 position to answer that. I am going to tell you why.
It is my understanding that about 70 per cent of all
diseases will handle themselves, and consequently when we
take a patent medicine requiring a small amount of drugs,
no doubt the preparation will have a tendency to hasten a
cure.
Commissioner Robinson: I do not believe we can go into
that.
Mr. Fisher: May I go into just one question, your
Honor?
Commissioner Robinson: Yes.
Re-examination on Behalf of the Commission.
Bv Mr. Fisher:
*
Q. You say that patent medicines as a rule are fool
proof? A. Yes.
Q. Do I interpret from that that some of these are not
fool proof? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then, if they are not fool proof and he broadcasts
those over his station to some particular individual, some
one else may get hold of that prescription and use it ? A.
That is very possible.
Q. And not being fool proof, there may be some danger
from that prescription? A. All the bottles have labels
which are printed, and they are printed very-
Q. Yes; but they may get into the hands of ignorant
people, some of whom may not be able to read or
251 write; is not that true? A. T don’t know. It may
be true, no doubt.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
139
Q. And there would be a danger in broadcasting pre¬
scriptions that were not fool proof? A. YCs; very true.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Do you not sell poisons in your drug store that, if
they got into the hands of ignorant people, would be dan¬
gerous? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Fisher: Yes; but they are not broadcast over a radio
station. j
By Mr. Strong:
i
Q. They are advertised in the newspapers,; are they not?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. The public are in position where they may be in¬
jured by them? A. Yes, sir.
J
Mr. Strong: That is all. j
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Strong: I have some additional affidavits, if the
Commissioner please, 125 of them by medicine users. I
want to call particular attention to this part of the affi¬
davit :
“I enjoy the various features of this radio station’s pro¬
gram, including orchestra numbers, singing numbers, and
other musical entertainments, vaudeville dialogues, U. S.
Weather and Market reports, agricultural informa-
252 tion, religious talks, and the ‘Tell Me a Story Lady’.
I am interested in particular in the lectures”-
!
Mr. Fisher: Are those all stock affidavits pertaining to
practically the same subject?
Mr. Strong: Yes—well, they also say they have not
heard any vile, obscene or vulgar language' over the sta¬
tion.
Mr. Fisher: Prepared by Mr. Trimmer?
Mr. Strong: A questionnaire was sent those people.
They returned the questionnaire, and then! this affidavit
was prepared because of the short time in which we had to
prepare for the hearing. These are dated the 17th day of
May.
140 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Mr. Fisher: As long as it is understood by counsel that
they are in that category or class, I have no objection.
Commissioner Robinson: The affidavits may be tendered
for a ruling of the Commission as a whole upon considera¬
tion of this case.
(The 125 affidavits referred to were collectively marked
“Applicant’s Exhibit No. 40.”)
Commissioner Robinson: We want, as a Commission, of
course, as we do almost daily and weekly here, to know how
thev were obtained.
*
Mr. Strong: I think there has been testimony on that.
Commissioner Robinson: Whether an affidavit is, after
all, a mere opinion or conclusion or not. Now and then we
find in a minority of cases that there are actual facts that
do have relation to a determination of the issue. These
may be of that kind. Some affidavits give the facts
253 and show that the public do like a station and that
it is rendering a very real variety of service.
Mr. Fisher: Let the record show that we object to the
affidavits if they contain any matter of opinion and not of
fact not within the actual knowledge of the affiants other
than facts that have been put into their mouths and into
their heads by counsel for Dr. Brinkley.
Mr. Strong: You have not produced any evidence to
show that the latter part has been done.
Commissioner Robinson: The same ruling and reserva¬
tion will be made to all of them.
Mr. Holland: I want to make an objection to the charac¬
terization of these affidavits as “stock affidavits.” It is
fully explained as to how they have been taken. Question¬
naires were sent out, answers came back, and then the af¬
fidavits were made out and sent back and regularly exe¬
cuted bv the various affiants. With that understanding:,
if that is what you mean by “stock affidavit”, well and
good.
Commissioner Robinson: Of course the Commission
must determine whether these are of such a character or
not. Thev might not be.
Mr. Strong: Here is a typical affidavit of 396, the affi¬
davit of Hazel Archer.
(The affidavit referred to was read by Mr. Strong.)
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
141
The point is that these people enjoy the programs so
much that they would like to have more time on the air for
the station. That shows-
Commissioner Robinson: That part of the affi-
254 davit of course cannot be considered. It could only
be considered upon a formal application for in¬
creased power or increased service.
Mr. Strong: We made that formal application, but it did
not arrive here in time to be considered at this hearing.
Mr. Holland: I want to object to that statement by the
Commissioner, because it does also go to the question of
the interest of the public in these programs ;j and that is
what we are here to meet.
Commissioner Robinson: Let the affidavits be noted as
tendered and marked.
(The 396 affidavits last above referred to were collect¬
ively marked “Applicant’s Exhibit No. 41.”)
Ruby Athey was called as a witness for and on behalf of
the applicant and, being first duly sworn, testified as fol¬
lows:
Direct examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. What is your full name? A. Ruby Athey.
Q. Where are you located, Miss Athey? A. You mean,
my home ?
Q. Yes. A. Junction City, but I work at Milford.
Q. You are a graduate of the Junction City high school?
A. Yes, sir.
255 Q. Your father is sheriff of the county there? A .
Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you been employed at Milford? A.
Since December 12, 1928.
Q. In whose employ are you ? A. Dr. Brinkley’s.
Q. What is your position? A. I am his stenographer
and I do some of his secretarial work.
Q. Do you take his lectures over the radio? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When did you first become employed there? When
did you first start taking his lectures? A. I think it was
about January 1st. I was there for two or three weeks get-
142
kfkb BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., vs.
ting accustomed to the medical terms, before I started tak¬
ing the lectures.
Q. January 1st, 1930? A. 1929. I came there in De¬
cember, 1928, and then about the first of January, 1929, I
started taking his lectures.
Q. Did you ever hear him broadcast in his lectures any¬
thing of an indecent or obscene nature? A. No, sir.
Q. Anything that would cause you to blush? A. No, sir.
Q. Or that embarrassed you in any way? A. No, sir.
Q. Have you taken his Question Box? A. Yes, sir;
since April 12 of this year.
256 Q. Did you ever hear him broadcast anything in
the Question Box that was indescent or obscene? A.
No, sir.
Q. Anything that embarrassed you? A. No, sir.
Q. What was the procedure followed in connection with
this question box? A. One of the other girls and I would
prepare the letters. You see, we have a 4 o’clock train in
the afternoon and we get mail off that and get it ready,
and the other girl would bring it to me and I would sort it
and see what was suitable and what we would want, and I
would take it to Dr. Brinkley’s desk and it would be there
when he had his first question box. There was just so
much time in the question box and we always had more
than he could answer.
Q. Have you made copies of his replies? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you also have the questions here? A. I think
we have. I think Mr. Trimmer brought them. When I
wrote out my transcription I made three copies.
Mr. Strong: Are those here, Mr. Trimmer?
Mr. Trimmer: Yes (producing papers).
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Will you look these over sufficiently to identify them?
A. These (indicating) are the ones that are filed according
to date.
257 Mr. Holland: Of the lectures or the question box?
The Witness: The question box. I have here at
the top, “Question Box. May 1st”, and then the time un¬
derneath, whether it was 9:30, 12:30 or 2:30 in the after¬
noon.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION. ! 143
i
i
Bv Mr. Strong:
i
Q. Here are some filed according to code. A. These are
the ones that we cut up. I made two copies, and then we
cut up these and the answer is attached to the; original let¬
ter, and then they were filed according to the alphabet.
These are all under “N”. These (indicating) are un¬
der “0”.
Q. Have you looked these over enough to identify them!
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can you identify those as the questions and answers!
A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Strong: I offer them in evidence.
Commissioner Robinson: They may be tendered subject
to a ruling of the Commission.
(The questions and answers referred to and identified by
the witness were thereupon collectively marked “Appli¬
cant’s Exhibit No. 42.”)
Commissioner Robinson: What would we do, gentlemen,
in case of an appeal! How pertinent is all that, anyhow!
Mr. Strong: I am merely tendering these in response to
a request that I do so, from counsel for the Commission.
Commissioner Robinson: The Commission will have to
regulate this record somewhat.
258 Mr. Holland: If the attorneys for the Commission
desire to withdraw their request, well and good; but
we do not want the record to show that we refused to com¬
ply with counsel’s request.
Commissioner Robinson: The Commission will consider
the relevancy of the documents.
The Witness: These (indicating) are on the lectures
that were given by Dr. Brinkley in the last year or so.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Bring it down to a period beginning February 1st.
Can you do that! A. The Doctor has not lectures in the
evening this year, that I know of, because I did not take his
lectures. These are all dated.
Mr. Strong: We will withdraw them for the time being,
until we can sort them over.
144 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
The Witness: These (indicating) are the lectures in the
evening, but not since February or March.
Mr. Strong: We will withdraw those.
Mr. Holland: Why do you not offer all that bear date
subsequent to February 1st?
Mr. Strong: Yes. We will offer those that bear date
subsequent to February 1st?
Mr. Fisher: No objection.
(The documents referred to and identified by the witness,
bearing date subsequent to February 1st, 1930, were there¬
upon collectively marked “Applicant’s Exhibit No. 43.”)
By Mr. Strong:
Q. You take these lectures down? A. Yes, sir.
259 Q. Is that your transcript (indicating)? A. That
is my transcription.
Q. Is that a correct transcription? A. It is a correct
transcription. Those are written up the next morning.
Q. And that is true with regard to the question box?
You took his answers down? A. Yes; and then I write
them up immediately after the period is over.
Q. Is that a correct transcription? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was the procedure that Dr. Brinkley followed in
conducting the question box? A. The letters were taken
in to him the evening before-
Q. You have stated that; but I mean, the next morning
when he would broadcast. A. When the “mike” was
turned on Dr. Brinkley has his mail all sorted before him,
and he would announce that he was speaking from his pri¬
vate office and would not begin the medical question box
for whatever period of the day it was—say, the 9:30 period.
He would pick up one of the letters and say, “The code on
this is Mrs. XYZ, Oberlin, Kansas”, and he would say-
Commissioner Robinson: How long would Dr. Brink-
ley—pardon me. Finish your answer, and speak a little
louder, please.
The Witness: He would pick up a letter and say,
260 “The code on this is Mrs. XYZ of Oberlin, Kan¬
sas”, or “Lincoln, Nebraska.”
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
145
Commissioner Robinson: Right in that cojnnection: how
much time had he given to that letter theretofore? Had
he studied it before? You say he would pick it up.
The Witness: I could not answer definitely on that, be¬
cause I don’t know; but the letters had been there since
the evening before, and I was at work until about 9:25 and
then I would go into his office and he would be ready to go
on the question box.
By Mr. Strong: !
Q. Have you ever known him to lay any matter aside
for study? A. Yes. Sometimes he would pick up a letter
and read it silently, to himself, and say, “Ij would like to
think this over a little bit; and you listen iin at 2:30 to¬
morrow.” He always had a little drawer but here (indi¬
cating), and things he did not want to answer right then
lie would lay down there.
Q. Does lie have an extensive library ? Aj. Quite an ex¬
tensive library.
Q. Do you know how many volumes? A. No. It is clear
around the walls of the room. j
Q. How large a room is it? A. It is a gdod sized office
room—his desks and the library and chairs.
Q. Do you know whether he keeps up to date on medical
subjects? A. I think he does. He tgkes plenty of
261 medical magazines. |
Q. Has he ever sent for books? A.I Yes. I don’t
remember the names of them, but I have \tritten lots of
orders for him.
Q. Have you any idea how many of these questions would
come in in the course of half an hour; how many he w r ould
answer? A. Well, I am not sure. I never thpught to count
them; but I have a record. j
Q. Would there be fortv? A. Probablv not fortv; more
like twenty-five. j
Q. Did you ever hear him advise people to go to their
physician? A. Yes, sir. He does that in nearly every case.
Q. Has he done that recently? A. Yes.
Q. Has lie ever advised people to go to specialists? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Can you name any of the specialists? ; A. Dr. Crile
of Columbus, Ohio-
10—5240a
146 KFKB BKOADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Mr. Brown: Cleveland.
The Witness: Cleveland, is it? And Dr. Francis Gore
of Kansas City; and bone specialists and baby specialists—
Dr. De Lee, I think, of Chicago. And there have been
others. I just don’t remember. Those have been referred
to mainly.
Q. Do you see some of these letters that come in? A.
Surely.
Q. In most of those cases had there been a diag-
262 nosis first? A. In a great many cases the ladies
would shy that they had been to their physicians and
had been taking treatment but had received no benefit, and
thej' would like to have Dr. Brinkley prescribe for them.
Q. Would they give him symptoms? A. Yes; and lots
of times—there have been many times when they would
send along a blood chart showing diagnosis.
Q. Wliat would he say to them in a case like that? A.
Where they sent something along?
Q. Yes. A. He would say, “Pardon me a minute. I
will have to read this over.” And he would read over the
letter and look over the chart, and then give their code
again, in case they might have forgotten, and then tell
them whatever he thought about it.
Q. Did he ever say to people that it was important that
they be examined? A. Yes, indeed.
Q. Did he tell them to go to their local doctor or some
one in whom they had confidence? A. Yes; and in cases
where he thought it was serious, he would tell them not to
be satisfied with one diagnosis, but to seek a specialist; that
their health was their most valuable possession.
Mr. Strong: That is all.
Examination on behalf of the Commission.
Bv Mr. Fisher:
*
Q. Miss Athey, how long have you been working
263 for the doctor? A. Since December 12, 1928.
Q. Are you on his pay roll or on the pay roll of
the Broadcasting Station? A. 1 am on the hospital pay
roll.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
147
Q. How long have you been on that pay roll? A. Ever
since I started.
Q. And at no time have you been on the pay roll of the
KFKB Broadcasting Station? A. No, sir.
Q. You have had more or less direct charge of these
question box letters as they came in, most of the time? A.
Yes.
Q. About how many, to your knowledge, have been com¬
ing in daily for the last six months, say, as near as you
con remember? A. I don’t do the counting of them. We
have eight girls in the office. They open up the mail and
sort it, the Doctor’s mail and what goes to the radio sta¬
tion, and those that are for the medical question box are
sorted and brought to me.
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. Where does Dr. Brinkley do this lecturing—at the
radio studio or in his hospital? A. In the hospital.
Q. Where is the studio? A. It is up the street about a
block.
264 Bv Mr. Fisher:
Q. By remote control? A. Yes.
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. Have you been in the studio? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What does it look like? A. Pretty.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. How many remote control stations are there—just
one at Dr. Brinkley’s hospital? A. That is all I am familiar
with. I
j
Commissioner Robinson: There is evidently one at some
church, because there is testimony to that effect.
Mr. Trimmer: We have had remote controls in Junction
City and churches in town.
The Witness: I did not know about that.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. About how many a day come in, to the best of your
knowledge ?
148
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Mr. Holland: How manv what, mav I ask?
Mr. Fisher: Letters, for the question box, her part of
the work.
The Witness: I would say that—I could not give you the
definite number. I do not count them. I just take them in
and lay them on the table. He answers about 25, I think,
in that half hour.
Bv Mr. Fisher.-
*
Q. Three times a day he does that? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then he answers about 75 a day. A. Yes.
265 Q. More than 75 come in in a day? A. Yes. He
couldn’t begin to answer all of them.
Q. Would you say that he answers 25 per cent of all that
come in? A. About. Sometimes 50 per cent. It just de¬
pends on how many are sorted up on his desk; and if a
whole push comes in that I know he can’t answer by the
time he got to them, he would be so late, I just throw them
away.
Q. Then, as I understand it, in this question box ar¬
rangement over radio station KFKB, he is not answering
over 25 to 50 per cent of all the letters that come in asking
for advice as to their physical condition? A. At this time,
Mr. Fisher, later in the, year he is answering nearly all of
them; hut during the winter when radio reception is good
the volume of mail is just tremendous. He couldn’t begin
to answer it. But in the last month or so I imagine he has
been answering about as many as come in.
Q. Starting to catch up? A. Yes; starting to catch up.
Q. Does he put them aside and then prescribe for them
maybe a month later? A. No, because—well, it would be
just too much, because a month later we would have them
stacked up, that much more.
Q. He is not attempting to catchup? A. He doesn’t;
no. I sort the mail. During December, January
266 and February the mail was just tremendous. There
would be a stack of new ones like that (illustrating),
and I knew he couldn’t get it in. If I would save it a week,
the next week there would be twice that many there. I
would pick out as many as could be answered, and the rest
of them would be disposed of.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
149
Q. Was the picking out left to you as to ■vtfhich ones he
would answer? A. Quite a bit of it. The other girls
would sort it and date it and bring it to me.
Q. But you would have all the question box mail? A. I
would have the question box mail.
Q. And you would sort of judge as to how many he
could answer? A. Yes.
Q. All he saw, then, was a portion of his mail in regard
to the question box? A. All he saw, I think, was what I
put on his desk.
Q. Were there some that were not answered for a week
or two afterwards? A. About five or six days. I don’t
think it would be a week.
Q. Some were five or six days? A. Yes.
Q. And if that person was particularly ailing or had a
serious ailment she might have to wait five or six days or
might not get an answer at all? A. They knew how far
behind we were. Every day the Doctor would tell
267 them the date of the letters he was answering.
There would be maybe fifty letters lying on the desk,
written on the 8th; maybe ten written on the 9th. These
were all clipped together in bunches and he would an¬
nounce, “I am answering April 7th letters.”
Q. The longest time would be five or six days that he
would be back? A. Yes.
Q. And it was left to you as to which ones he would
answer? A. Yes.
Q. You say he would pick up a letter and look it over
and say, “Pardon me just a moment,” or words to that
effect? A. Some of the letters would be just a line or two;
sometimes three or four pages.
Q. Was not that the first time he had seen those letters?
A. No, because I would bring some in in the evening and
then some the next morning.
Q. But you would bring them in between the 9:30 and
the 12:30 lecture sometimes? A. Yes.
Q. And all he would have was that little time in between
there. A. But they would be stacked up like that (illus¬
trating), and he would be reading through them before.
Q. He would only have that time to read through them?
A. Yes.
150
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Do you still think that he read through all
268 those before he actually came to the microphone to
prescribe for them? A. I couldn’t say. I was not
there.
Q. But you do know that he would say “Wait a minute”
and take occasion to read the letter over and pass out ad¬
vice on it? A. Yes.
Q. In passing out this advice you have heard him say,
“Go to the drug store and get prescription No. 59 or 60 or
72”? A. Whatever he thought best.
Q. And he would read them in code, would he not? He
would say, “This is Sunflower State”—that is the code;
or “Luella”? A. Yes.
Q. He would say the specific code number, “Pansy”, or
whatever it was? A. Yes.
Q. Then he would go ahead and prescribe over the radio
pertaining to the ailment of that particular individual who
wrote that letter in to him? A. Yes.
Q. Is not that correct? A. Yes.
Q. If she was listening, she would be the individual that
would receive that? A. Yes.
Q. And it would be for her particular ailment? A.
Sometimes. You see, in a case of high blood pres-
269 sure a lady would write in and say she was suffering
from high blood pressure; and there is one treatment
that I think, from what the Doctor speaks of, would be
adaptable to many cases.
Q. That may be true, if they were listening in; but this
particular communication is directed to that particular
lady? A. Yes.
Q. Whether it is high blood pressure or stomach trouble
or whatever it is. A. Yes.
Q. And the particular letter was before him when he
broadcast this information? A. Yes.
Q. How much time a day do you say he puts in on that?
A. Three periods a day of half an hour each.
Q. How much more time does he put in on the radio
each day? A. He doesn’t put in any more. He has not
given any lectures since—I do not think I have taken a
lecture since this past December; that is, in the evening.
Q. In the program of April 9 there is shown a lecture
broadcast by the announcer in which it was announced that
FEDERAL, RADIO COMMISSION.
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it was Dr. Brinkley’s lecture. Was it one of these old
ones? A. That was one that had been prepared by him.
Q. Before? A. Yes. The announcer read it.
Q. Do you know how many of thbse are being
270 broadcast that are prepared by him each day? A.
No; I do not.
Q. You say that as to most of the communications he
would answer them right then, or say, “I will answer you
at 2 o’clock tomorrow”, or words to that effect? A. Yes.
Q. Do you know anything about this preparation No. 50?
A. Yes. j
Q. Do you know what the price of that is? Does he an¬
nounce that over the radio? A. No, sir. He just recom¬
mends it.
Q. Buy No. 50? A. Yes.
Q. You do not know what proportion he gets of that, or
anything like that, what amount of money he gets for the
filling of that prescription? A. No; I dpn’t believe I
know. That is, I couldn’t definitely say.
Q. Do you know anything about his connection with the
Pharmaceutical Association? You know that there is such
an association? A. Oh, yes.
Q. He broadcasts and tells them to take the prescrip¬
tions to those druggists? A. Yes.
Q. What does he actually say about that matter? A.
He will recommend prescription 50 or 60, for in-
271 stance. He would say, “I recommend prescription
No. 50” or “60, which can be obtained at one of our
cooperating druggists.”
Q. In some cases in connection with a particular town,
such as Syracuse, or Beatrice, does he say the name of the
druggist in that town sometimes? A. Once in a great
while; but there are quite a few of them aqd I cannot re¬
member who they are.
Q. There may be two or three in one town? A. Like in
Kansas City or Hutchinson.
Q. More than one? A. Yes.
Q. And once in a great while he will name a particular
drug store in the town and say, “Get it there”? A. Yes.
Q. And in other cases he says, “One of the cooperating
druggists”? A. Yes, sir. j
152
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Which prescription number does he use the most, in
your judgment, over the radio? A. I think about every-
d^ ^ ^ ^ writes in must have high blood pressure.
Q. What number is the prescription for that?
Commissioner Robinson: You mean, they say they have
high blood pressure?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: Who determines?
The Witness: The Doctor reads it from the symptoms.
In many cases they start out by saying they have it
272 and have been taking treatment and have received
no benefit.
By Air. Fisher:
Q. In other words, he takes their word for it?
Commissioner Robinson: Do they send in their phy¬
sician’s opinion that they have high blood pressure?
The Witness: They say, “I have been to my doctor and
I have received no benefit. I am suffering from high blood
pressure”, or whatever it is. I presume that is a physi¬
cian’s diagnosis.
Bv Mr. Fisher:
%
Q. What is the number of that prescription? A. I do
not think I know.
Q. It is not No. 50? A. No; that is the liver medicine.
Q. For constipation? A. Yes.
Q. Is not that probably the most popular one; that is, it
is prescribed most? A. It is used a great deal, but I would
not sav it is used the most.
Q. Is it between those two? A. Yes.
Mr. Fisher: That is all.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. In sorting out those letters have you any particular
instructions as to what type of letters to take up ? A. No,
indeed.
Q. You pick them up at random? A. I just pick
273 out how many I think he can answer. There will be
lots of them that will say, “I would like to have you
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
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send it at” some particular time. I can’t sort them out
and watch out for one particular time. So those that ask
for one particular time, I just throw them away.
Q. Have you conducted any of the correspondence for
the Brinkley Pharmaceutical Association? A. You mean,
have I written to various druggists?
Q. Yes. A. Not recently.
Q. Who is president of that association? A. Mr. Walker
from Topeka, Kansas.
Bv Mr. Fisher:
Q. Have you written the various druggists at various
times? A. I have written a few, but not recently. My
time has been pretty well taken up with other dictation.
Q. Do you know r Dr. Brinkley’s signature when you see
it? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I hand you herewith Commission’s Exhibit marked
“B” for identification, which is a letter from the Brinkley
Hospital, and ask you to look at the signature and see if
you can identify that and see if it is Dr. Brinkley’s signa¬
ture. A. (After examining same.) That is a stamp signa¬
ture.
Q. Was there a stamp on hand that could be used? A.
Yes.
274 Q. You have seen the stamp? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is that a correct imitation of his exact signa¬
ture? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did the form letters go out over his stamp signature
like that? A. He uses a stamp quite a bit.
Mr. Fisher: At this time we wish to introduce that as
a letter from Dr. Brinkley pertaining to the broadcast
situation, matter that is being broadcast over the station
pertaining to individuals and ailments.
(The document referred to, headed “The Brinkley
Hospital”, dated March 13, 1930, and addressed to Mr.
R. A. Sisty, Route 1, Columbus, Nebraska, was marked
“Commission’s Exhibit B.”)
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. He writes individuals to tell him of their ailments
and asks them to come in to the hospital? A. I don’t have
154
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
much of the hospital correspondence. That is put on the
Ediphone and I do not operate that.
Q. But he has stock letters that he sends out? A. A
form letter.
Q. Would you say that (indicating) was a form letter?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you familiar with it? A. I know it is there, but
I don’t handle it.
Q. You know it is in the hospital and you have seen it?
A. Yes; but I don’t handle it.
Commissioner Robinson: How long did you say
275 you had been in Milford?
The Witness: Since December 12, 1928.
Commissioner Robinson: The hospital was there when
you went there?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: And the radio station?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: Does Dr. Brinkley receive
through you as his secretary remittances from druggists?
The Witness: No, sir; I do not handle that.
Mr. Strong: W 7 e have no objection to the exhibit except
the notation at the top.
Mr. Fisher: We would like to have that taken off the
exhibit; and I will have the reporter erase all that. It is
not a part of the record, your Honor.
Mr. Holland: Whose initials are “E. D.”?
Mr. Fisher: I do not know.
Mr. Holland: Did any of your witnesses here sign this
notation?
Mr. Fisher: No; and we do not contend that that is a
part of the instrument at all.
Mr. Holland: I know you do not; but it is quite sig¬
nificant and it is very prejudicial. A notation is made on
this and it bears the initials “E. D.” I would like to know
what those are.
Mr. Fisher: I do not know the initials “E. D.” Frankly,
it is one of the exhibits in the file.
Commissioner Robinson: You are introducing it with¬
out the notation?
276 Mr. Fisher: Yes.
Commissioner Robinson: It will be admitted.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
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155
Mr. Strong: You do not know whether it was sent here
by a doctor or not?
Mr. Fisher: No; I cannot identify the “E. D.”, frankly.
Mr. Strong: What is the purpose of this communica¬
tion?
Mr. Fisher: To show that this information is being sent
out through lectures being broadcast over the radio station
to people writing in for information.
(The document referred, heretofore marked for identifi¬
cation “Commission’s Exhibit B”, was received in evi¬
dence as “Commission’s Exhibit B.”)
Mr. Fisher: Just one further question and I am through.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Are you familiar with the various literature that he
sends out in compliance to requests over the radio station
and letters being written asking for information, such as
“Your Health” and “Paw and Maw”? A. Am I familiar
with the literature?
Q. Yes. A. Yes.
Q. Do you know that is sent out? A. Yes.
Q. Where is that sent out from—from the hospital?
Mr. Strong: Do you know where it is sent out?
277 The Witness: Yes.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Where is that? A. From the mailing room in the
office there, in the Brinkley office.
Q. The hospital? A. The office, down the street.
Q. From the broadcasting station? A. No; the Brinkley
office.
Q. I ask you if you are familiar with this paper which
I have had marked “Commission’s Exhibit C” for identi¬
fication, and I ask you if that is sent out. A- That is not
sent out now. It was when I first came there, but I have
not seen it sent out for a long time.
Mr. Fisher: We offer that in evidence.
Mr. Strong: I object.
Commissioner Robinson: If sent out by the use of the
radio.
156
Ki'KB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Has that been sent out this year? A. No; I am
quite sure it has not, because it was only when I was there
for a while.
Q. At the beginning of your period there? A. Yes.
Mr. Fisher: I think it is admissible as to information
having been sent out over that radio station and having
just come to the knowledge of the Commission.
Commissioner Robinson: Tender it, and the ruling will
be reserved.
278 (The document referred to, entitled “Life,” was
marked “Commission’s Exhibit C.”)
Mr. Strong: I take exception to the admission of that
particular document in evidence, for the reason that there
has been no evidence or testimony to the effect that that
document has been sent out since KFKB was in the hands
of the corporation or during the present fiscal year or dur¬
ing the present or preceding license period.
Are you through, Mr. Fisher?
Air. Fisher: Yes.
Redirect examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Did you ever receive telegrams from listeners in
connection with the question box? A. Oh, yes.
Q. What was the procedure on a telegram? A. They
were taken to I)r. Brinkley’s office immediately.
Q. Were they thrown away? A. No, sir.
Q. Did they receive his immediate attention? A. Yes.
Q. Supposing a special delivery inquiry came in from
a listener: what was the procedure on that? A. It was
taken care of.
Q. Immediately? A. Yes.
Commissioner Robinson: Over the radio, or by return
letter?
279 The Witness: By taking it in and putting it on
the Doctor’s desk where he would be sure to find it.
Commissioner Robinson: The Post Office Department and
the telegraph companies can attend to the system relating
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
157
to their use. Would Dr. Brinkley answer the telegram
from that sick person or patient, over the fadio?
The Witness: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: He would not write back or
wire back about the case?
The Witness: They are addressed to the Medical Ques¬
tion Box.
Commissioner Robinson: And all inquiries by telegram
or letter to the Medical Question Box are Answered over
the radio?
j
By Mr. Strong: ;
Q. All telegram- or special delivery letters were an¬
swered ? A. They were answered.
Q. And answered promptly? A. Yes.
Q. They were considered urgent? A. Yes. The tele¬
grams, even if they came in in the middle oij the Question
Box, were brought in. i
Q. In regard to a large number of these cases, were they
chronic cases where they had had troubles; over a long
period of time? A. A good many of them were.
Q. Did they describe their symptoms? A. Yes.
Q. When the Doctor would broadcast that over
280 the radio would he refer to their symptoms? A.
Quite frequently—not that he would read the whole
letter.
Q. But the gist of it? A. Yes.
Q. From hearing an outline or gist of these letters,
could you yourself tell whether or not a given medicine
would be beneficial if you had those particular symptoms?
A. I do not know enough about medicine; no.
Q. Would he in broadcasting these symptoms indicate
that the medicine was generally beneficial for symptoms of
that kind? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he promise them an absolute cure? A. No.
Q. Did he say as to whether or not this medicine would
be beneficial? A. He would say it would be beneficial.
Q. Did he ever say it would cure them? A- There are
lots of letters—he would say a person’s condition was, as
he saw it, so far advanced, and he said, “You might try”
this or that. “It may help you.”
158 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. But he did not say it would cure them? A. No.
Q. And in cases like that would he refer them to their
own doctor? A. He nearly always refers them to their own
physician.
281-299 Mr. Strong: That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Strong: That closes our case in chief, your Honor.
Of course we expect that we are to submit rebuttal witnesses
to the witness introduced out of order yesterday evening.
But this closes our case in chief.
Commissioner Robinson: We will take a recess until 2:30.
(Whereupon, at 12:30 o’clock p. m., a recess was taken
until 2:30 o’clock p. m.)
300 Dr. E. S. Edgerton was called as a witness for
and on behalf of the Commission and, being first
dulv sworn, testified as follows:
Direct examination.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Please state your full name. A. E. S. Edgerton,
Wichita, Kansas; physician and surgeon.
Q. Where and when did you graduate; what degrees
have you and what practical experience? A. Rush Medi¬
cal College in Chicago. I graduated from that institution in
1910 with the degree of M. D.
301 Q. What has your practice consisted of? A. A
physician and surgeon; during the past ten years
specializing in surgery.
Q. WTiere, Doctor? A. Wichita.
Q. And during that time have you had occasion to take
post graduate courses, and so forth? A. No.
Q. Have you had intern work in hospitals? A. Yes.
Q. Where and when? A. I was an intern in the Presby¬
terian Hospital in Chicago.
Q. How long? A. Two years—1911 and 1912. I was
instructor in the University of Wisconsin Medical School
in the school year of 1912 to 1913, and have practiced
medicine in Wichita, Kansas, since that date.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
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Q. And you have specialized in surgery during the past
ten years? A. Yes.
Q. Do you hold any official position with the Kansas
Medical Association? A. I am the president of the Kan¬
sas State Medical Association.
Q. Have you had occasion to listen to radio station
KFKB of Milford, Kansas? A. I have.
Q. Just briefly, upon what occasions dr how many
302 occasions, and where and when? A. I would say,
rather infrequently. I have not listened to the sta¬
tion very much, but I have heard it at various times, hut
with no degree of regularity.
Q. Have you had occasion while hearing it to hear Dr.
Brinkley announce that he was broadcasting over that
station? A. I have.
Q. With regard to the question box procedure? A. Yes.
Q. Have you heard those questions and answers? A. I
have heard some of them.
Q. You have been present here while the witnesses have
been upon the witness stand explaining the method that
has been used by Dr. Brinkley in broadcasting that infor¬
mation? A. I have.
Q. In your opinion as a physician and surgeon, what
would you say in regard to that method of broadcasting
and the results coming therefrom? A. It is my opinion
that it is not thorough; that it is unscientific; that it is
hazardous; that it must necessarily be a snapshot in the
matter of diagnosis. It does not in the case of heart dis¬
ease or kidney disease or other diseases give an oppor¬
tunity for the examination of the patient and the use of
routine laboratory examinations which are very essential
in a majority of treatments of this kind of cases.
Q. You have heard the information and the testimony
upon the witness stand with regard to this informa-
303 tion being broadcast to a particular individual and
perhaps being used by the general public. What is
your opinion as to that procedure and method? A. I
think just in the degree to which it could
be used as
a measure for information for the general public, just in
that degree does the danger of such a method increase. I
heard here in this room the statement made——
Q. From the witness stand? A. Yes.
i
160 KF.KB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Go ahead. A. (Continuing:) —that one of these
parties had received a prescription for a cough, and it was
brought out in this hearing that a cough is a common symp¬
tom and therefore a prescription would be used in general.
It is my opinion that to prescribe for a cough in this
manner without knowing the cause of that cough might
be productive of severe harm, and for this reason: a cough
is a symptom. It may be a symptom of pneumonia; it
may be a symptom of a cold or of influenza; it may be a
symptom of heart disease or of tuberculosis. To use a
method of this type in prescribing for a cough, without
knowing the underlying causes of that cough, is, in my
judgment, hazardous and a dangerous proceeding.
Q. Doctor, have you had occasion to investigate Kansas
Exhibit 1 with regard to the book put out by the Brinkley
Hospital called “Your Health”? A. I have.
Q. I would ask you to take this Kansas Exhibit 1 and
look at the methods presented on pages 10 and 14
304 thereof and give your opinion as to the harm or
danger or whether that is a satisfactory method of
performing those operations in your experience as a li¬
censed and practicing physician and surgeon.
Mr. Strong: Has he ever performed these operations?
The Witness: As described in this pamphlet?
Mr. Strong: No. Have you ever performed a prostate
gland operation?
The Witness: I have.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. How many times, Doctor, have you been consulted
on and have performed such an operation? A. It would
be a guess with me. I have had fifty to seventy-five such
operations.
Mr. Strong: Have you ever performed a gland trans¬
plantation operation?
The Witness: No.
Bv Mr. Fisher:
Q. That is the one that has the method presented there,
is it not, on page 14? A. This is not the pamphlet that
I am familiar with, but I will refresh my memory.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
161
Q. Is that the same pamphlet, “Your Health”? A. Yes;
but the arrangement of it is somewhat different from the
ones I have previously seen.
(Reading:) “In performing the Compound Operation
the Steinaeh principle of the importance of the vas
deferens has its value, and at this point we wish to pay
tribute of admiration to this great physiologist and
305 give full credit to him as the source of this funda¬
mental idea. Aside from the recognition of this
principle no use is made of the Steinaeh technique in the
Compound Operation.
“We proceed to the spermatic cord and open this, ex¬
posing the vas. We open the vas and proved its potency,
or free channel. None but those so familiar with the
anatomy concerned that they could safely perform this
part blindfold should attempt it. We must not cut the vas,
but incise it on its long axis; and the canal, \yhich is very
small, must be opened. Now with our vas canal open and
its potency proven”- j
|
I think that is intended to be patency.
Mr. Strong: It was “patency” in the one 1 saw.
The Witness: “Patency” means that it is open. I think
that is what it refers to. !
j
(Reading:) “Now with our vas canal open and its
potency proven we shall borrow a nerve supply. Why?
Because we must have more nerve-energization directed
through this vas into the human gonad to produce the de¬
sired proliferation of the life-giving, energizing, vitalized
Leydig cells. Likewise we borrow the serviced of a branch
artery, and this is delicately anastamosed down alongside
the vas into the epididymis. Now you see we have ener¬
gized and caused to proliferate these important Leydig
cells and have provided by means of the new arterial blood
supply not only increased nourishment for| the human
gonad but an avenue for the escape of whatever living
cells may be manufactured there directly into the blood
stream-so that these important seeretidns may find
306 their way to the parts where they ard needed.”
1 think the rest of it is more or less
11—5240a
162
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. With regard to that, what is your scientific judg¬
ment of it? A. It is my opinion that the operation as
described is impossible of performance, and that whatever
there may be of it that could be done would effect very
little benefit, if any. He opens the vas, apparently. He
does not say he probes it. He “proves its patency” or
“potency”, he says here. I infer he means “patency.”
If he does do this, he may accomplish a little good; but
it does not in any way affect the organs that he alludes
to elsewhere as being improved by this particular opera¬
tion.
Q. Turning to page 14, Doctor, and discussing there the
matter of the four phase compound operation, what par¬
ticular part of this is impossible? What do you mean by
“impossible” in that first answer? A. There is no artery
in that region upon which an anastamosis could be done.
There is no nerve that could be transplanted to bring any
increased nerve stimulation to the cells referred to. For
that reason I think that the technique described is impos¬
sible of performance. The opening of the vas is possible
of performance.
Q. Now, taking page 14 in the exhibit, Kansas No. 1.
A. (Reading:) “An enlarging prostate is a growing
tumor, vascular in its nature and requiring a liberal blood
supply and generous nourishment to continue its growth.
By its very nature it provides an increased blood
307 supply and additional nourishment and as long as
this condition persists it will continue to enlarge,
massage, irrigation, drugs, electro and other appliances
notwithstanding.
“The only logical procedure, therefore, is the reduction
of the blood supply which will produce a natural shrink¬
age rather than continuous growth. This can be accom¬
plished with a local anesthetic. The patient is not put to
sleep nor subjected to any harm or danger; he walks to
the operating room and walks back to his bed after the
operation is over. He lounges in bed for three or four
days, loafs about the hospital another three or four and
then is ready to return home.
“This reduction of the blood supply to the enlarging
prostate is an adjunct to the Compound Operation de-
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
163
scribed earlier in these pages, adapted to not only reduce
the size of the prostate but to protect it in its important
functions, preserve rather than destroy sexual potency,
and prevent the necessity of having the gland removed.”
The gist of this is, as I take it, that by performing this
operation which was described in the earlier pages, he is
able to effect a lessening in the size of the prostate gland.
It is my opinion that there could be no such change ef¬
fected by such a procedure.
Q. Then there would not be any benefit derived from
this sort of an operation? A. No.
Q. I hand you herewith Commission’s Exhibit B, which
is a letter sent out by Dr. Brinkley, and I ask you to ex¬
amine the contents thereof and the description of
308 an operation there, I believe, on page 2. A. This
letter, referring to the operation, says:
“The Compound Operation is divided into four phases.
Phase One: Decompensate the prostate—stop its growth—
reduce it in size. Phase Two: Injection into the seminal
vesicles of a solution to clear out all infection. Phase
Three: Increase the blood and nerve supply to your own
gonads to build them up. The enlarging prostate is a rob¬
ber of your gonads. As the prostate gets larger the
gonads get softer and smaller. Decompensate the prostate
so it will not rob your gonads and they will get harder
and firmer and the prostate smaller. A much desired
end-result. Phase Four: Transplantation of hbalthy gland
tissue to your own gonads to help build them up because
you have been weakened by your chronic illness. All of
this is done without putting you to sleep, you can laugh
and talk with the doctor while the work is being done, go
home in five to seven davs.”
Q. In your opinion, is that operation practical? A. It is
not, in my opinion.
Q. Why not, Doctor? A. He does not describe his pro¬
cedure in this letter. He says it is divided into: four phases
and describes the various phases. The compound opera¬
tion, as described in the other pamphlet, would not effect
the changes, in my judgment, that he alludes to in this
letter. >
164 Ki'KB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. I hand you herewith transcript of matters being
broadcast over that station from April 1 to April 8, taken
bv Grace Dedrick and known as Commission’s Ex-
309 hibit D, and ask you if you have examined that. A.
I have.
Q. You know the contents of it? A. I do.
Q. Are there certain matters in there that have been
broadcast that are dangerous to public health and safety?
A. In my judgment.
Q. In your judgment as a physician and surgeon? A.
They are.
Q. Just state to the Commission in what manner, and
your opinion on the same. A. May I read from this?
Mr. Strong: Will you indicate the pages, please? A.
On page No. 2:
“A lady in Oklahoma wired from Caldwell, Kans. You
give this young lady prescriptions No. 61 and 67 and 50,
and she will be all right. You take some of her No. 50
yourself and also No. 80, and both of you will be all right.”
Bv Mr. Fisher:
Q. Have you looked over what those prescriptions are
in the exhibit as put before the Commissioner? A. I have.
Q. You know what the}’ refer to? A. I cannot recall,
nor do I remember all of the contents, but I know some
of them.
Q. You have looked at the other list of prescriptions?
A. I have. •
310 Q. Proceed. A. Not so much because of what
these prescriptions may have in them, but to pre¬
scribe for two persons from a telegram is, in my judgment,
a very incomplete method of treatment and necessarily,
if persisted in, would be in many instances hurtful.
Mr. Strong: Is that telegram set forth there, Doctor?
The Witness: It is not. As I understand it, this is simply
a stenographer’s transcript of the notes as she took them
down, of all that was said over the radio in regard to these
particular cases.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Make any comment, Doctor, on any of those diag¬
noses. A. Here-is one:
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
165
; 0
“Alarmed over my condition. You are 50,! with 4 chil¬
dren, a busy life, fair health. My dear lady, you ought to
get busy on Prescription No. 50, for women, 61 for women,
68 for women and 79 for women. They will take care of
your nervous, excitable condition, and don’t forget your
Maltine, milk, cream and cod liver oil.”
A wholesale prescribing which, in my judgjnent, is not
thorough nor careful dispensing of drugs.
The code of this one is “Live and love and let.” States
she is taking three of my prescriptions and wants the new
prescriptions. The new prescriptions for you are No. 50,
60, 61 and 62. They are wonderful. In regard to your
husband, give him No. 50 for men and No. 80 for men. If
he will take these two he will find complete relief. There
is not any longer any such prescription
as 85.”
311 The code of this one is “A peanut of Nebr. A
little girl, 6 years, complains of cramps, i I think she
is wormy. This little girl she says eats a lot of peanut
butter. Ask for Prescription 94 for her worms. Follow
directions that the druggist will give you and| I think she
will get rid of that pain. In regard to yourself, you have
had an operation, had your appendix taken out. You are
going to get into trouble a little later on. No, the half an
ovary you have left will not grow and will not function very
long in the place of two. It is overloaded. You will find
that out in a little while. Gland disfunction is the cause
of the cold perspiration. My advice is No. 61 and stay
on it for about 10 years. It is a very expensive prescrip¬
tion. Also use 50 special for women.”
My comment in regard to this is that a child of six years
of age with pains in the abdomen and cramps—that it would
be a hazardous thing to guess worms without further in¬
formation, inasmuch as numerous painful conditions of the
abdomen of children require often times immediate opera¬
tive interference as life-saving measures.
I further make this comment, that to prescribe for a per¬
son for ten years in advance is an unsound and an unsafe
procedure.
I would also call attention to the fact tlmt this is a pre¬
scription which the list states sells for such a price that
average daily consumption as directed would
cost in the
166
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
neighborhood of 50 cents a day. If this were to be con¬
tinued over the ten years it would be a matter of $1,800,
were she to carry this out as indicated here, which is
312 a very expensive procedure and a procedure which,
I say, is not justified in being carried out in prescrib¬
ing for a condition ten years in advance.
“John. Probably albumen causes the frequency, and
stones in the bladder will cause frequency. One of the
good things for vou to do is to use No. 50 for men and
another good one for you to use is No. 78, and No. 64.”
Any condition in which albumen in the urine was a strik¬
ing feature must necessarily be examined first hand to
have the benefit of laboratory examinations of the urine.
To hazard a guess as to some medical treatment for a con¬
dition at a remote distance is hazardous.
“Springtime. Says she has been told that she had quite
a lot of sugar and she dieted 6 months and was not allowed
anv sugar or starch. If vou have diabetes I think the
Maltine had entirely too much sugar for you. I wouldn’t
advise you to use Prescription 107, but I would advise 64.
I would advise you to use 61 also. If you have sugar dia¬
betes you are simply obliged to reduce the intake of sugars
and starches, not for six months but for an entire life time.
I have also found very good in diabetes prescription 55.”
I might say that I do not remember just what 55 is, but
I know it is not insulin. Insulin is the recognized standard
treatment for diabetes if it is necessary. If there is any
drug needed in the proper care and management of dia¬
betes, it is insulin. Assuming that this individual does
need help other than diet, such advice as this, where no men¬
tion of insulin is given, is to my mind denyimr this
313 woman what is today universally known as the only
logical treatment for diabetes.
“A Lady in Hays, Kans. Her brother has sugar dia¬
betes and had it two years. He lives in Wichita and is not
receiving any help at all from Wichita. Yes, he can be
helped, and the thing to do is to find out his sugar tolerance.
Prescription 85 is also good in these cases, to be taken from
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
167
three to a dozen, after eating or before eating, as the di¬
rections will tell you when you get it. ’ ’
The same comment as regards that. j
Q. Have you looked at prescription 85 in the list? Are
you sure it is not insulin? A. I did not notice what that
was.
(After referring to prescription list:) “Trypsogen for
Sugar diabetes. Dispense 500 tablets. Label. ‘Take from
3 to 12 tablets after each meal, depending oh the degree
of blood sugar.’ Instruct patient as to sugar and starch
free diet. The bowels should always be kept open with
the C & L medicine even though it contains a little sugar.”
Q. What is Trypsogen? A. I am not familiar with it,
only from the name I would take it that it is some sort of
a pancreatic preparation prepared for use by mouth. In¬
sulin is a pancreatic preparation which must be standard¬
ized and used hypodermically in order to be used accurately
and safely.
There are lots of these here. I do not know that I need
go further.
Q. I think you have commented upon them enough,
314 Doctor. !
Do you know of your knowledge anything about
the Brinkley Pharmaceutical Association? A. No, sir.
Q. It never came to your attention, how it is organized?
A. I have been told, but it is not from any member of the
association. j
Q. It is not directly from Dr. Brinkley, either, or any
of his associates? A. No.
Mr. Fisher: I think that is all.
Mr. Strong: I move to strike out the testimony of this
witness on the ground that this Commission has no power
of censorship. I think I made a general objection to all
this kind of testimony. This testimony all goes only to
the question of censorship.
Commissioner Robinson: The testimony will stand for
the present. The Commission will consider it or not con¬
sider it as the Commission may determine.
Mr. Strong: I want to have an exception noted.
168 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Commissioner Robinson: You mean that if we admit it,
you will except?
Mr. Strong: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: It is a close question. In other
wrnrds, Mr. Strong, I do not know but what it is pertinent.
On the other hand, I am wondering if it has anv relation.
I wonder if the remedy is not in the medical profession
itself. This man is authorized to practice.
315 He is authorized to speak medicinally. If he speaks
through this transmitter to an individual patient or
a number of patients over the air, we have all these things
to consider in working out this case, and the Commission
will take it under consideration and deal with the evidence
and do it fairly. That is about all I can say.
I still want you, however, to take the one thought that
I have expressed since I got into this case. Is this station
operated majorly for Dr. Brinkley and his hospital and
only minorlv for the public? That is what the Commission
has got to decide—that is, the use of the air.
Cross-examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Is the Kansas State Medical Association paying your
expenses here? A. Yes.
Q. You came here as their representative? A. Yes.
Q. What school of medicine do you belong to? A. Al¬
lopathy.
Q. Do you know what school of medicine Dr. Brinkley
belongs to? A. I think he is an eclectic.
Commissioner Robinson: Wliat is the difference?
The Witness: Eclectic medicine is a little hard for me
to describe to your Honor. Eclectic medicine is the prac¬
tice in which there are described and taught specific medi¬
cines for specific conditions. That is, for every disease
complained of there is a specific remedy for that
316 particular thing. It does not take into considera¬
tion so much the underlying causes of associated
conditions, but it has for each feature of the disease a
specific remedy.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
169
Commissioner Robinson: It is quite a recognized school
of medicine today, is it not?
The Witness. Yes. !
Commissioner Robinson: As much recognized as Home¬
opathy?
The Witness: No. The only method of recognition is
the number of men engaged in practice in that particular
school, and I do not think there are as many eclectics as
there are homeopaths.
Co mm issioner Robinson: You allopaths do not like the
homeopaths ?
The Witness: I have no fault to find with them. I have
some very good friends among them.
Commissioner Robinson: Nor the osteopaths nor the
chiropractors?
The Witness: That is true.
Commissioner Robinson: This Commission must avoid
that question and get to the public service df this station.
We are admitting all this for whatever light it may have.
J
i
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Are you familiar with the Eclectic Medical Journal?
A. I am not.
Q. If I were to state that the Journal defines the eclectic
practice of medicine as follows:
317 “The prejudice against this system! is due to the
fact that it is generally misunderstood. Eclectics
do not advocate specific remedies for specific diseases”,
etc., but they do “prescribe specific remedies for specific
pathological conditions, ’ ’
would you say that was wrong? A. I would not know. I
am not familiar with just what they claim for their school,
I am sure.
Q. Is your association actively engaged in trying to take
Dr. Brinkley’s license to practice medicine ffom him? A.
It is.
Q. There is a proceeding at present pending in the State
of Kansas, is there not? A. There is.
Commissioner Robinson: That is another case.
!
i
170 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Mr. Fisher: If it goes to the matter of the interest of
the witness, I suppose it is pertinent.
Mr. Holland: That is the only reason it is put into the
record.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. You read the answers. You did not have the ques¬
tions before you, did you? For instance, you read an an¬
swer to a telegram, but you do not know what that party
telegraphed to the doctor, do you? A. No.
Q. Is not that true of every other answer that you read
there? A. Yes, sir; only as he may have commented on
what the letter may have contained. It was very brief.
318 Q. For all you know, that letter or telegram may
have contained a detailed description of the symp¬
toms by a doctor? A. Well, they say that the lady writes
or the patient writes or the man writes. I do not believe it
is a doctor writing. In many instances—at least, I did not
see in this transcript a record of any doctor having written
for information; but the individual might have the infor¬
mation that thev conveved in that letter from a doctor,
if that is what vou mean.
•*
Mr. Strong: That is what I mean.
Commissioner Robinson: Is Dr. Brinkley really author¬
ized to practice medicine in the State of Kansas?
The Witness: He is.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. And has been for many years? A. I think, since 1916.
I am not sure of the date of his admission to practice.
Commissioner Robinson: Another thing I want developed,
and I would like to mention it now. Which preceded in
operation, the hospital or the station? I want to know if
this station is a mere adjunct to the hospital.
Mr. Strong: The hospital preceded the station. Of course
you understand that broadcasting stations were rather few
and far between back 13 years ago.
Commissioner Robinson: Oh, yes; I know that. Is this
license for the revenue of this hospital or this particular
physician ?
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
172
Mr. Strong: It seems to me that these affidavits
319 show public interest and widespread public interest,
and extensive public interest, and the testimony of
these people who have come back here to testify shows a
widespread public interest.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Now, Doctor, in your practice have you ever attempted
a gland transplantation? A. I have not.
Q. Do you know anything about gland transplantation?
A. Only from what I have read in the literature. That is
not first hand knowledge or experience.
Q. What, literature have you read on the subject? A.
Text books that refer to these things; certain reports in the
current journals of medical literature.
Q. Have you read “Young’s Practice of Urology? A.
Yes. That is the practice by Dr. Young who was here
yesterdav.
Q. Did you hear Dr. Young’s testimony last evening?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you agree with his opinion? A. Yes.
Q. I will ask you to read the second paragraph on page
697 of Young’s Practice of Urology, Volume 2. A. Do you
want me to read it aloud?
Q. Yes. A. This paragraph that is marked?
Q. Yes. A. (Reading:) “A great many testicular ex¬
tracts and preparations have been exploited by unscrupu¬
lous dealers and charlatans. At the present state of
320 our knowledge there is no evidence whatever that ad¬
ministration of such products by mouth produces any
physiologic changes in either animals or m!an. This does
not, however, imply that injections of such extracts, graft¬
ing and transplantation experiments or vasoligation are ab¬
solutely worthless. A conservative and wise attitude on the
subject is perhaps that of F. II. A. Marshall, who in a re¬
cent paper states that, ‘ “it must be pointed out that the
accumulation of evidence in support of the contention that
a testicular graft obtained from another individual and
even another species may exert a definite physiologic influ¬
ence upon the recipient, is considerably greater than many
men of science have so far been disposed fo admit.’ ”
172 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
I think that Dr. Young’s statement of yesterday was
very fair. He said that in his opinion the benefits derived
from such a transplantation were transient and temporary
in effect.
Q. Have you ever heard of Max Thoreck, on “The Human
Testis”? A. Yes.
Q. Have you ever read that book? A. Some of it.
Q. Is it a standard work? A. 1 think so. I consider
it so.
Q. Is this man considered an authority? A. Yes, sir.
Q. I will ask you to read certain portions of this book-
Mr. Fisher: We have no objection to going into
321 this if he wants to make this witness his own to in¬
troduce this testimony. I do not see what bearing it
has upon the direct examination whatsoever.
The Witness: I am very willing to read this if he will
let me read other extracts from the same volume. He asks
that I read this. The top of this page is headed “Chapter
XVII, Indications and Contraindications for Sex Gland
Transplantations in the Male.
“A. Indications.-
“1. Loss of the testicles through trauma or pathology
resulting from such conditions as tuberculosis, neoplas-
mata, suppurations, etc. This class of cases represents a
distinct and clear-cut set of indications where the greatest
possible good may be done by sex gland implantation.”
There is another passage in this book that is just as
pertinent, if I can lay my hands on it.
Mr. Fisher: Do you know the purport of the other pas¬
sage?
The Witness: Yes.
Mr. Fisher: What is it, Doctor?
Mr. Holland: If he has the book there, let him find it.
Mr. Strong: The book itself is the best evidence.
Commissioner Eobinson: You mean, something that is
inconsistent with that?
The Witness: More to the point involved here, your
Honor. This refers to the use of human testicles. I do not
know that this is the same condition, but it is by the same
author and the same book. It is on page 382.
I
I
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION. 173
322 (Reading:) “An attempt has been made in certain
quarters to transplant testes from rams, goats, and
animals of similar specie into the human economy. Reports
from serious investigators in this field have shown absolute
failures in the vast majority of cases. Experimental inves¬
tigations conducted by the author on this question have re¬
sulted in all instances where these animals were used for
transplantation, in absolute failure; to-wit, necrosis of the
implant; aseptic or septic suppuration with final extrusion
of the transplanted testis. This is not at all surprising,
for if we consult the results of the studies in blood relation¬
ship between the human and the lower forms of animals a
wide divergence and an insurmountable biologic gap is at
once encountered. (Cf. Chapter on Blood Relationships
between Apes and Humans.) Furthermore, a histologic
comparison between the blood elements of these animals
and humans will at once display the greatest variation and
disproportion. In other words, the implantation of sex
glands from these lower animals into the human bodv is a
physical, physiological and biologic impossibility, and in
view of my own researches and those of other investigators
it is a fallacious undertaking and should never be at¬
tempted, for biochemically and structurally the hiatus thus
far remains unconquerable. Microscopic studies invariably
emphasized these conclusions in showing that there was no
tendency of regeneration and an influx of cellular elements
is at once set at work to extrude the invading foreign body
—for the implant is a foreign body in the strictest sense of
the term and is, therefore, dealt with by the body juices as
such from the moment of implantation to its final
323 extrusion.”
Bv Mr. Strong:
Q. Please read, in that same book, where it states
“Transplants from Higher Apes,” page 383. A. (Read¬
ing:) “The most logical animals to serve the purpose for
implantation, next to the homo sapiens, as donors, are the
groups belonging to the anthropoidea. Of these the chim¬
panzee and the ourangoutang are most desirable. To Serge
Voronoff of Paris. France, belongs the credit, unreservedly,
of having pointed out to the scientific world that in the ab¬
sence of, or in the case of, impracticability of human speci-
174 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
men for implantation, we may resort with success to the
animals under discussion in this chapter, i. e., the higher
apes. Experimental studies and the comparison of the em-
brvologv, dentition, analogv of the skeleton and visceral
relationship, as well as the histology of the internal organs,
have caused him to conclude that the possibilities of im¬
plantation from higher apes to humans may be successfully
accomplished. This has been proven by Voronoff and
others, from a number of transplants so done, to be a fact.
In comparative studies between anthropoid apes and
humans, Voronoff is upheld by Gruenebaum, Uhlenhut,
Bruch, and others. Clinical manifestations verify the feas-
bility of such implants in cases subjected to this treatment.
Tn following up Voronoff’s work the author was able to
prove by implanting: a number of testes from this class of
apes into humans that the implants do live for a certain
period and clinically often give results akin to those ob¬
tained from homo-transplantation.”
.324 Q. Will you read farther back on page 385, from
the same book, paragraph No. 5? A. (Beading:)
“Based on recent studies, particularly of Mott and others,
showing a dysfunction with gross alterations of the Levdig
cells in cases of dementia precox, and in view of some good
results obtained bv Lvdston and the author as cited else-
where in this volume in this class of cases, implantations
seem to be indicated.” That is a reference to human
glands.
Q. Doctor, I will ask you if you have read the clinical
case reports, Chapter 9? A. I have not recently.
Q. Could you state as to whether or not he sets forth
cases of gland transplantation of human glands which were
successful? A. I think he does. I think he refers to the
work of Lvdston and others.
Q. Can you tell me also as to whether or not he refers to
transplantation occurring within 36 hours after the death
of the donor? A. Yes; in which an individual had been
dead for a number of hours; yes.
Q. Will you please read that article from page 424, the
second paragraph, in the same book. A. (Reading:) “ ‘So,
taking all in all, the use of human sex glands for transplan¬
tation purposes is not of very great practical value. We
therefore have to have recourse to the sex glands of animals;
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
175
i
and the sex glands most successfully grafted and
325 most likely to yield hormones similar to the human
hormones are the sex glands of monkeys.’ ”
The nearer related to the human species they are, the
better they are and the more practical they are.
Mr. Holland: That last is your statement?
The Witness: Yes.
(Reading:) “ ‘And it is with glands of these animals
that investigators, notably Dr. Serge Voronoff of Paris,
have done the most important experimental and thera¬
peutic work. As I said in the introduction of this chapter,
even discounting the enthusiasm and unconscious bias of
pioneer investigators, there is little doubt that the implan¬
tation of simian glands in the human male gives occasion¬
ally very remarkable results. I reproduce herewith two of
the cases as reported by Doctor Voronoff.’ ”
That is all in quotation marks. I do not know whose
statement that is. I do not know whether it is Thoreck or
not.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. I think that is Dr. Lydston as set forth in this book.
You testified that you had performed operations on the
prostate gland? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you ever try to reduce the gland? A. Yes.
Q. Did you succeed? A. No. Temporarily, I think,
yes. But there are all sorts and conditions of prostate
glands, and the condition for which surgery is indicated is
not a condition that can often be improved other
326 than bv surgical means. There are manv inflam-
matory conditions which can be reduced by massage,
stripping the contents out, and so on, and they temporarily
are reduced in size.
Q. You have never been able to reduce the prostate
gland by surgery? A. I have never tried any way except
its removal or partial removal.
Q. You have never tried to reduce the size of it? A. By
surgery, other than prostatectomy or partial prostatec¬
tomy. |
Q. Your method is, when the prostate gland is seriously
involved, to remove it? A. No; I did not say that.
Q. I mean, as far as surgery is concerned. A. Yes. If
you are going to do any surgery, why, do it.
176 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Is it your opinion that that is necessary? A. What?
Q. That it be removed if it needs any surgery? A. Well,
if it needs any surgery, no, because we do other surgical
procedures on the prostate other than its removal. There
is a very well recognized method of punching out a piece in
the channel to allow for freer exit of urine, the so-called
“punch operation.” It is nothing other than a piece is
punched out; that is a partial removal.
Q. You have never tried to reduce it by controlling the
blood supply to it? A. No, sir.
Q. Now, Doctor, you have testified with regard to
327 this question box. Have you ever heard of a book
entitled “Prevention of Disease and Care of the
Sick”, put out by the Treasury Department, United States
Public Health Service, by W. G. Stimpson, Assistant Sur¬
geon General, United States Public Health Service? A.
I am not familiar with it; no.
Q. You do not know, then, that in that book, put out by
the United States Government, there are numerous descrip¬
tions of the symptoms of diseases and the treatment of
them? A. No; I do not know that there are. That is cus¬
tomary in most descriptions of disease. I suppose it is if
it describes that sort of thing-
Q. I will ask you to look at that book, please (handing a
book to the witness). A. What particular feature of it?
You do not mean for me to go through all of this?
Q. No. Will you read the preface to the first edition?
A. (Reading:) “This book has been prepared for the use
of the lavman in order that he mav know what measures he
* •/
should take to protect himself from disease and what he
should take to• protect himself from disease and what he
should do in case of sudden illness, where it is difficult or
impossible to secure the services of a physician. Written
directions very imperfectly supply the place of the physician
and surgeon. No one should depend, if it can be avoided,
upon the information that can be obtained from a medical
handbook.” Do you want it all read?
328 Q. Yes; read the next paragraph. A. (Reading
further:) “When there is sickness always send for
a physician, if one is within reach, in order that the patient
may receive the best attention available.”
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
177
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. Are there any places in this country where physicians
are not within reach? A. They may not be within reach
within a matter of a few hours, but there is no place that
I know of where it is impossible to get one.
By Mr. Strong: j
Q. Don’t you know that there are four hundred cities
in the State of Kansas where there are no physicians? A.
Cities of what size?
j
Q. Small towns. A. I don’t call them cities. There may
be.
Q. Does not the American Medical Association so report?
A. I am not familiar with such a report.
Q. Page 110 of the pamphlet entitled “Prevention of
Disease and Care of the Sick, United States Public Health
Service, 1923”—what is that disease set forth there? A.
Pneumonia is the name of it. You say, what is it?
Q. Does it set forth the symptoms?
Mr. Fisher: Now, may it please your Honor, we do not
want to be technical, but if Mr. Strong wants to make the
Doctor his witness it is all right with us. This cer-
329 tainly is not proper cross examination.
Mr. Holland: May it please the Commission, the
witness came here as an expert and has testified as an
expert.
Mr. Fisher: On certain things, yes.
Mr. Holland: He is a reputable physician, a graduate of
Rush Medical College, and all that, and he testifies that
certain of this matter that is broadcast is very detrimental
to the public. Here is a pamphlet put out by the Govern¬
ment describing diseases and prescribing treatment for
them. We want to know whether it is a dangerous thing
for the Government to do. If so, we had better check up
our public health department and stop that.
Commissioner Robinson: You may examine him.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Does that describe the symptoms? A. Do you want
that read out loud? It is rather lengthy.
12—5240 a
178
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Just read a little of it. A. (Reading:) “The sputum
is abundant, tenacious, and of a reddish-brown color,
whence the name ‘rusty sputum.’ The color is due to the
admixture of small quantities of blood. The pulse at first
is full and bounding, but later may become weak, rapid,
and barely perceptible at the wrist. Breathing is embar¬
rassed, the respiratory movements are rapid, 30 to 50 per
minute, the patient is restless and often can not lie down
but has to be propped up in bed or sit in a chair. There
may be delirium, and if not watched the patient may jump
out of a window and injure himself severely. The fever
in a typical case remains high until the seventh or ninth
day, when it will frequently drop to normal in a few
330 hours. This is called the crisis, and if there are
no complications it is followed by great improve¬
ment in the patient’s condition and he generally goes on
to recovery. In other cases the temperature does not re¬
turn to normal, but only falls a degree or two for a short
time and then rises again. This is called the false crisis
and is of unfavorable import, especially if accompanied by
profuse sweat and blueness of the skin.
“Complications.—The disease is nearly always accom¬
panied by pleurisy, which is an inflammation of the serous
membrane covering the lung.”
Q. What is this (indicating)? A. “Prevention.”
Q. What is this (indicating)? A. “Treatment.”
Q. What does it say under “Treatment”? A. “The es¬
sential thing in the treatment of pneumonia is to see that
the patient gets plenty of cold fresh air. Oftentimes no
other treatment is necessary. The bed should be placed
upon a porch, or, if this is impossible, all the windows of
the sick room should be wide open. The patient should be
well covered, and hot-water bottles or hot bricks should be
placed near his feet to keep them warm, care being taken
not to burn him. Once a day the patient should be moved
to a warm room and given a sponge bath. The pain in
the side can be relieved by a mustard plaster. Two grains
of calomel and four grains of sodium bicarbonate, followed
in about 6 hours by a Seidlitz powder, should be given on
the first day, and the bowels should be kept open there¬
after by a small dose of salts given each day. The
331 patient’s strength should be conserved by giving
him a glass of milk or a bowl of soup.”
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
179
It refers to a very safe inert drug.
Q. What disease is this (indicating)? A. Sinallpox.
Q. What does it say about that? A. (Reading:) “Small¬
pox is an acute, contagious disease, characterized by an
initial fever and successive stages of eruption.! It spreads
rapidlv among persons unprotected by a vaccination.’’
Q. Wliat is this (indicating)? A. “Treatment.” I will
state to you frankly that I have not read it and never saw
it, but I will bet it does not refer to a single drug in thie
treatment of it—that is, of any moment.
Q. Read what it says there. A. (Reading:) “The food
should be soft and nourishing and given at regular inter¬
vals. Cold drinks, lemonade, barley water, etc., may be
freely given. Aspirin, 10 grains, may be given for the
headache.” That is not for the smallpox.
Q. Read this-
Mr. Holland: Will you allow me to ask a question? Are
you still on smallpox?
The Witness: Yes.
Mr. Holland: Is not that ofttimes very difficult to diag¬
nose in its first stages?
The Witness: Yes.
Mr. Holland: And doctors disagree on it?
332 The Witness: They may for the time.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. What is this (indicating)? A. “Tapeworms.”
Q. What is this (indicating)? A. “Treatment.”
Mr. Holland: Read the treatment—part of it, anyway.
A. (Reading:) “Various curative substances are used, the
best probably being a fresh preparation of the extract of
male fern. The dose for an adult is one-half to 1 dram.
It. should be given in capsules and should be followed in
a few hours by a dose of salts. If there is pain and the
bowels do not move easily, an injection of warm water
is administered. Instead of mal° fern, a decoction ot
pomegranate bark may be used. This is made by adding
4 ounces of poraearanate bark to a oua^t of Water. This
mixture should be allowed to stand for 24 hours and then
hoilecl until it is reduced to 5 ounces. The whole amount
of the pomegranate bark should be taken in three or four
180 KKKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
doses at short intervals. Pumpkin seed mashed up and
made into a paste with sugar is also a useful remedy.”
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Read this on “Coughs and Colds.” A. (Reading:)
“When a person has a cough that lasts more than two or
three weeks, even though the symptoms are mild, the case
is serious enough to require an examination by a physician,
and one should be consulted on the first oppor-
333 tunity.” That just bears out the remark made
about colds and coughs.
Q. When it lasts two or three weeks? A. Yes.
Q. What does it say here (indicating)? A. (Reading:)
“For the soreness over the chest a good rubbing with
soap liniment may help to relieve the symptom. A tablet
of Brown Mixture or one teaspoonful of Mistura pectoralis
(expectorans) X. F. given every three hours is serviceable.
The bowels should be kept open by a tablespoonful of
Epsom salt, when necessary.”
Commissioner Robinson: What is the purpose of this,
Mr. Strong?
Mr. Strong: 1 want to show that the Government of the
United States sends out to the people of the United States
a pamphlet of 312 pages describing a wide range of dis¬
eases and the symptoms of them and the cure of them.
Commissioner Robinson: The Government, however, has
an unlimited number of mail sacks, and in radio we have
but a limited number of channels. Is the channel that is
assigned to this station being made the best use of in
the public interest?
Mr. Strong: I offer this book in evidence.
Commissioner Robinson: We are admitting it and I am
going to allow the Commission to consider all that.
(The document referred to, entitled “Prevention of
Disease and Care of the Sick,” was thereupon marked
“Applicant’s Exhibit No. 44.”)
Bv Mr. Strong:
Q. Are you familiar with Publication No. 8 of the
334 United States Department of Labor. Children’s
Bureau, 1929, entitled “Infant Care”? A. I am
not.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
IS1
Q. Did you know there was such a publication? A. I
know there are a number of Government publications.
Q. Don’t you know that this publication has been sent
out in the territory in which you live, by your own Conr
,pressman? A. No; I didn’t know that. He;didn’t send
it to me.
Q. I will ask you to state what that is (handing a book
to the witness). A. “United States Department of Labor,
James J. Davis, Secretary, Children’s Bureau, Grace Ab¬
bott, Chief; Infant Care; Bureau Publication No. 8, Re¬
vised July, 1929.” I
Q. Will you read the letter of transmittal that is in the
front of it? A. (Reading:)
“United States Department of Labor, Children’s Bureau,
Washington.
October 4, 1929.
“Sir:
“There is transmitted herewith a revised edition of the
bulletin, Infant Care, first published in 1914.
“This revision is the work of Dr. Martha M. Eliot, di¬
rector of the child-hygiene division of the Children’s
Bureau, and of the bureau’s advisory committee of pedi¬
atricians, consisting of physicians appointed by the asso¬
ciations which they represent; Dr. Howard Childs Car¬
penter, representing the American Child Health Associ¬
ation; Dr. Julius H. Hess, the section of diseases of chil¬
dren of the American Medical Association; and Dr.
335 Richard M. Smith, the American Pediatric Society.
“Respectfully submitted.
“GRACE ABBOTT,
Chief.”
Q. Please refer to page 78. A. You mean, to read it?
Q. Just enough to identify it. A. (Reading:) “Cod-
liver oil. Cod-liver oil should be begun before the end of
the first month of the baby’s life.”
Q. Now read here (indicating). A. (Reading:) “How
to give cod-liver oil to a baby.” Q. What is this (indicat¬
ing)? A. “The sick baby. What a mother should note.
The mother should learn to read a clinical thermometer.”
182
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. What is this (indicating)? A. “Early signs of ill¬
ness in a baby.”
Q. What is this (indicating)? A. “What to do before
the doctor comes.”
Q. What is this (indicating)? A. “Caring for a sick
baby. ’ ’
Q. What is the heading there (indicating)? A. “Com¬
mon disorders.”
Q. And after “Common Disorders,” there are- A.
Vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, scurvy, rickets, eczema,
thrush, convulsions, worms, colds, enlarged or diseased
adenoids or tonsils, earache, croup, heat rash or prickly
heat.”
336 Mr. Strong: T offer that in evidence.
Mr. Fisher: We object to the introduction of this
pamphlet on the ground that it is incompetent, irrelevant
and immaterial and not proper cross examination and has
no bearing upon the issues in this case.
(The document referred to, entitled “Infant Care”, was
thereupon marked “Applicant’s Exhibit 44-A.”)
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Is it, in your judgment, a dangerous thing to send
these two publications to the people? A. It is not.
Q. You have no objection to that? A. No.
Q. Did you ever hear Dr. Brinkley recommend people to
go to doctors? A. Yes.
Q. Did you hear that over the radio? A. Yes.
Q. With regard to that publication that you read from
describing the compound operation, would the average per¬
son know what the doctor was talking about? A. I doubt
it very much.
Q. Would any one not a doctor or a nurse, or one trained
in medicine or surgery, know what that was? A. I don’t
think so. I do not know, myself. I do not think it is pos¬
sible to do what he says he does. If it is, I don’t under¬
stand it. .
Mr. Strong: That is all.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
183
337 Redirect examination.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Doctor, you have heard these pamphlets read here
which are pamphlets of a general nature and general infor¬
mation. In what way are they different from actually pre¬
scribing for a particular patient’s ailments? A. They re¬
fer largely to prevention and are general in their nature
for the most part, and the idea indicated is to keep well,
and what to do in case of sudden illness. I grant you that
there are conditions of emergency arising in which methods
of this sort would be natural and only human; that I might
prescribe over the ’phone in such an emergency or I might
use methods which in other than sudden case$ I would not
feel was good practice in doing it, and I would not make it
a practice to do that sort of thing regularly.
Mr. Fisher: I think that is all.
(Witness excused.)
Dr. James Stewart was called as a witness for and on
behalf of the Commission and, being first duly sworn, testi¬
fied as follows:
Direct examination.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. State your name, residence and occupation. A.
James Stewart; secretary of the State Board of Health;
State Health Commissioner of Missouri; physician.
Q. Where do you live? A. Jefferson City, Missouri.
Q. Are you a practicing physician and surgeon?
338 A. No. * I
Q. You have been? A. I have been. I am a
health officer now.
Q. At this time you are State Health Officer? A. Yes.
Q. State what education you have had and where you
have practiced. A. I was admitted in St. Louis, at the
Barnes Medical College, graduating in 1905.
Q. Admitted to the practice of medicine where and when?
A. 1906, in Missouri.
184 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Where did you practice and what kind of practice?
A. I practiced in the hospital for a year in St. Louis; in
the state for ten years, and then back in St. Louis for seven¬
teen years.
Q. Over that time you have had a general practice both
as a physician and as a surgeon? A. Not as a surgeon.
Q. As a physician? A. Yes; and health officer.
Q. Have you had occasion to hear the radio lectures and
information being broadcast by Dr. Brinkley on KFKB of
Milford, Kansas? A. Yes.
Q. Have you heard his lectures and his health talks? A.
Some of them.
Q. Have you heard personally any of his lectures or
talks in the Question Box and the answers thereto?
339 A. Yes.'
Q. You have heard those of your own knowledge?
A. Yes.
Q. And you have been present here and have heard the
witnesses state as to the method that has been used by Dr.
Brinklev in conducting this information over the radio sta¬
tion KFKB ? A. Yes, sir.
Q. In your opinion as a physician, and with your years
of experience, what would you say with regard to that prac¬
tice and that kind of procedure? A. I think it is a rather
unsafe procedure to accept the symptoms as given and to
prescribe over the radio. It is not so much the treatment
that is important; it is the complete and thorough diagnosis
of the case, and it cannot be done without close contact and
personal contact with a patient.
Q. Would you say that that practice being pursued over
the radio is a danger to the public health at large? A. Yes.
sir.
Mr. Fisher: I think that is all.
Cross-examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Would you consider it to be contrary to the public
health for a doctor to broadcast medical lectures over the
radio and to refer patients to other doctors and special¬
ists? A. I have never heard that done.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
185
a question of
Q. I say, would you? A. I think it would be all
340 right if he would do that. I have never heard that
over the radio.
I
Q. If it was a chronic case, where a person had been suf¬
fering from it over a lengthy period of time and described
the symptoms, after having consulted with other doctors,
would you consider it then safe to prescribe? A. No, I
would not.
Q. Even though there had been careful diagnosis ? A.
A careful diagnosis by anybody—it is unsafe to prescribe
on another man’s diagnosis.
Q. You have never done that? A. No, sir.
Q. Do you doctors ever have disputes on
diagnosis? A. Yes, but we finally come to a conclusion
after the proper examination is made through a laboratory,
and the physical signs of the patient.
Q. Do you always agree on the treatment? A. No. The
treatment is insignificant, as far as that goes. Really the
most important part of the public health is the diagnosis—
knowing what is actually wrong.
Q. What school of medicine do you belong to? A. The
allopathic or regular school.
Q. Do you consider the eclectic school irregular? A. It
is not as progressive as it might be. It is practically ex¬
tinct now.
Q. Do you consider doctors who have been educated in
that school as incompetent? A. Some of them are most
incompetent.
341 Q. Do you consider all of them such? A. No.
Q. There are eclectic practitioners that you con¬
sider competent? A. I have not met any.
Q. Are there any of your school of medicine that you
consider incompetent? A. Very.
Q. Have you met some of them? A. Yes, sir.
Redirect examination.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. In listening to the radio station did you hear the doc¬
tor prescribe by this method of referring to certain pre¬
scriptions by number? A. Frequently.
186 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Did he say anything with regard to going to certain
drug-gists to procure the prescriptions! A. Frequently.
Q. You have heard that of your own knowledge—your
own ears! A. Yes, sir.
Recross-examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Is it within your knowledge that Doctors occasionally
fill their own prescriptions from their own shelves! A. I
have done it mvself when I was a countrv doctor, when we
had no drug store.
342 Q. If there was a drug store! A. I prescribed.
Q. You did not fill your own prescription! A. I
did many times, when I had no confidence in the druggist
and thinking possibly he might substitute; I filled the pre¬
scription myself from my own shelves.
Q. Do you know whether or not that is done by doctors
now! A. In remote sections of the state; yes.
Q. In the rural sections of the state! A. Yes.
Q. Doctor, you heard the reading of the extracts from
these books, “Infant Care” and “Prevention and Cure of
Diseases”, by the Government! A. Yes.
Q. Do you think those are contrary to public health! A.
We distribute them from our office, from the Children’s
Bureau and the Public Health Service. There is not a sug¬
gestion in any of the methods of treatment that is danger¬
ous or hazardous in any way, shape, manner or form.
Q. Do you not think it is dangerous for people to be
given the symptoms and the opportunity to try their own
treatment! A. In extreme, it is an educational proposi¬
tion; and it is not done over the radio.
Q. You make a distinction between its being done over the
radio and being put out in a pamphlet like this (indicating)!
A. Yes. Directions by word of mouth are much
343 more dangerous than directions by printed matter
Mr. Strong: That is all.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. You say you have heard Dr. Brinkley give his lec¬
tures and answers in the Question Box, and so forth. Have
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
187
j
you ever heard him broadcast anything of an obscene
nature? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Please describe approximately when and what it was.
A. It was during either the month of January or February
of this year.
i
I
Mr. Strong: I ask that the time be fixed definitely.
The Witness: I cannot fix the date, but Is can say it was
in that period of time, over the radio.
Mr. Fisher: May it please your Honor, it does not mat¬
ter whether it was either month. It has just come to the
attention of the Commission, and they are entitled to have
that information.
Commissioner Robinson. It may be admitted. It is
within the license period, and therefore admitted.
Air. Strong: Exception. j
The Witness: He received a letter from a woman—I can¬
not recall what her inquiries were—who said that her hus¬
band was so virile that she was annoyed alt night by him
and his conduct, and that she wanted some advice from Dr.
Brinkley over the radio what to do to tone him down; that
she was disturbed through the night time. And he laughed,
“Ha, ha, ha” and said “All I can say is, ‘Tell your
M44 husband to sleep in the barn.’ ”
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. Do you consider that obscene? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you ever heard Dr. Royal S. Copeland broad¬
cast on fish? A. I have.
Q. Have you heard him on any other broadcasts? A. No.
Q. Do you have any objection to his tjroadcasts? A.
Not to anv that I have heard.
*
Commissioner Robinson: I am going to ask vou a very
frank question, because it has been in my mind for a year
or more. I do not know whether it has anyjrelation to this
hearing. There have been some indications that it might
have, but I do not know what view the Commission will
take of this matter. It is a very frank question. Are the
medical lectures over the radio by Senator: Copeland con¬
sidered ethical by the profession? !
188 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
The Witness: No. I have lectured over the radio my¬
self from WOS once in a while during the months of Jan¬
uary, December and February on public health matters, on
certain diseases, more as a protection to the public health
and a warning to them on small pox, typhoid fever, epi¬
demic meningitis, hydrophobia, and things of that sort.
It is my duty to do those things as State Health Officer.
It was not a matter of treatment. It was a matter of warn¬
ing; it was a matter of educating people how serious these
matters were and as a protection to the public
345-347 health.
Commissioner Robinson: That is as distin¬
guished from the talks of Dr. Copeland?
The Witness: This was over a state station, and I am a
state officer, and all the state departments use that for the
benefit of the people of the State of Missouri. We have
good water in Missouri; we have pure -water; we have pure
milk; we have good air, and we vrant to keep them pure
and good.
(Witness excused.)
348 Mr. Strong: Mr. Assistant Attorney General, that
sounds very much like that was prepared by a law-
349 yer. Do you know who prepared that?
Mr. Ralston: No; I do not.
Mr. Strong: Did you have anything to do with its prep¬
aration?
Mr. Ralston: No.
Mr. Strong: You do not know what induced it?
Mr. Ralston: No.
Mr. Strong: Who submitted it to you?
Mr. Ralston: It was given to me by Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Strong: Of what? What is his business?
Mr. Ralston: He is a newspaper man.
Mr. Strong: For what newspaper?
Mr. Ralston: I believe, the Kansas City Star.
Mr. Holland: Is his first name George or does the first
name begin with G?
Mr. Ralston: A. B.
Mr. Holland: He is not the fellow who made that endorse¬
ment in blue pencil on that exhibit that was offered a while
ago?
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
189
Mr. Ralston: I do not know who made that.
Mr. Strong: Were these all presented to you by Mr. Mc¬
Donald?
Mr. Ralston: Yes, sir.
Mr. Holland: We object to their introduction.
Commissioner Robinson: The affidavit is admitted.
(The affidavit referred to, of Grant Eden, heretofore
marked for identification “Kansas Exhibit No. 5”, was re¬
ceived in evidence as Kansas Exhibit No. 5.)
350-354 Commissioner Robinson: How many others have
vou?
v !
Mr. Ralston: There are five or six others along the same
line. j
Commissioner Robinson: Of course we cannot finish to¬
night ?
Mr. Strong: No; it is impossible. We will have affidavits
in rebuttal.
Commissioner Robinson: Mr. Ralston may put his affi¬
davits in in the morning.
The Commission is now adjourned until 10 o’clock tomor¬
row morning.
I
(Whereupon, at 4:30 o’clock p. m., an adjournment was
taken until tomorrow, Thursday, May 22,1930, at 10 o’clock
a. m.) ;
i
355 Federal Radio Commission, Washington, D. C.
Docket No. 835.
In re Application of The KFKB Broadcasting Associa¬
tion, Inc., Milford, Kansas. Renewal of; License. 1050
kilocycles: 5 kilowatts; limited time.
Hearing Room, Federal Radio Commission, Interior De¬
partment Building, Washington, D. C.
Thursday, Mav 22,1930.
The hearing in the above-entitled matter was resumed,
pursuant to adjournment of Wednesday, May 21, 1930, at
10 o’clock a. m.
190
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Present:
Commissioner: Ira E. Robinson (Presiding).
General Counsel: Thad H. Brown.
Asst. General Counsel: Ben S. Fisher.
Official Shorthand Reporters: Hart, Dice & Carlson.
On behalf of KFKB: Rush L. Holland and George E.
Strong, Washington, D. C., and Charles B. Trimmer, Kan¬
sas Citv, Missouri.
On behalf of the State of Kansas: W. C. Ralston, Assist¬
ant Attorney General of the State of Kansas.
356-368 Proceedings.
Commissioner Robinson (presiding): You may proceed,
Mr. Ralston.
Mr. Ralston: I will ask the reporter to identify this affi¬
davit (indicating).
(The affidavit referred to being that of John L. Zahner,
of Lenexa, Kansas, was marked for identification “Kansas
Exhibit No. 6.”)
Mr. Ralston: This is the affidavit of John L. Zahner of
Route No. 2 of Lenexa, Kansas, and reads as follows:'
*******
369 Dr. James Stewart, a witness previously called
and sworn, resumed the stand for further cross-ex¬
amination and testified as follows:
Cross-examination (resumed).
By Mr. Holland:
Q. Doctor, referring to what you testified yesterday you
heard over the radio broadcast bv Dr. Brinklev, which vou
characterized as being obscene, you were quite indefinite
as to the time. I am simply putting you back on the stand
to see if it is possible for you to locate or to fix that time
more definitelyj A. No; I cannot, because I listen to the
radio more or less all the time and I couldn’t make it any
more definite.
Q. What were the limits that you fixed yesterday? A. It
was either in the month of January or February.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
191
Q. Of this year? A. Yes, sir.
Q. With reference to January, would you say it was the
fore part of the month or the latter part of the month? A.
I could not say. I know it was in the winter months.
Q. You cannot say whether it was before the 15th or after
the 15th of the month? A. No, sir.
Q. And with reference to February, do you include the
whole of that month? A. Yes, sir; I would say in that
period of time.
Q. So you are unable to fix the time more definitely
370 than within a period of sixty days, the whole of Jan¬
uary and the whole of February, 1930? A. I cannot
call to mind any incident that would connect up with that
particular date.
Q. In that period of time were you in the habit of listen¬
ing in generally on Dr. Brinkley’s broadcasts? A. No;
not all the time.
Q. Where was the radio located over which you heard
this? A. In mv home.
Q. So it must have happened in the evening? I assume
you were at your place of business during the day time?
A. I am sometimes, and sometimes I do some work at
home.
Q. Did you know the hours when Dr. Brinkley broadcast
his Question Box? A. Yes; it was in the forenoon and
sometimes in the early afternoon; and, again, I think that
was the time.
Q. It was that portion of his broadcast, or the broadcast
from that station, that you took special pains to listen in
on? A. Well, I listened in to the whole program and it
seemed to me like it was just a program of the Doctor.
Q. I am not asking you about that.
i
Mr. Fisher: Let him answer.
Mr. Holland: I do not care for him to volunteer. If you
want to string this record out indefinitely, well and
371
good.
Mr. Fisher: You have asked him a question.
Mr. Holland: I have asked him whether or not he
listened in especially with reference to the ho
Brinkley was broadcasting his Question Box.
question. He has answered it, has he not?
urs when Dr.
That is my
Mr. Fisher: He is answering it.
i
192 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Mr. Holland: He had already answered it.
The Witness : I have not completed the answer.
By Mr. Holland:
Q. What are you going to volunteer in connection with
what you have already said? A. In answer to your ques¬
tion : I listened in to the whole program and was impressed
with the musical numbers and also was impressed with the
fact that that was the attraction to hold the audience to
hear Brinkley over the radio.
Mr. Holland: I move to strike that out as not being re¬
sponsive to the question and as expressing the witness’
opinion.
The Witness: I am testifying.
Mr. Holland: You are giving your opinion, also.
The Witness: It is my testimony.
Commissioner Robinson: It is pertinent testimony, and I
suppose, Mr. Holland, that you will bring the same thing
out-
Mr. Holland: The objection is overruled?
Commissioner Robinson: Yes.
Mr. Holland: Exception.
By Mr. Holland:
Q. Then, as I understand you, you cannot even fix
372 the time of day when you heard this broadcast? A.
Not definitelv.
V
Q. Can you fix the time of day indefinitely? A. Between
January and February, during that period of time.
Q. I said, the time of day, indefinitely. A. No; I can¬
not, because I listened at several times during the hours I
have mentioned.
Q. You said you could not fix the time of day, only indefi¬
nitely? A. I said in the morning and early afternoon.
That is as close as I can recall.
Q. Did not this language which impressed you as being
obscene make a real impression on your mind? A. That is
why I am stating it: yes, sir.
Q. But it did not impress you enough to fix the point of
time any closer than a period of sixty days ? A. There was
so much of it going on.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
193
Q. I am asking you. A. I am telling you.
Q. Well, tell me, then. A. There was so much of the
stuff going on that it was just impossible for me to recall.
I am testifying under oath and giving you the best I can.
Q. I have no doubt of that, Doctor; but I am trying
to find out, if I can, when this was done. A. I am trying
to tell you as best I know.
Q. And that is the very best you can do! You can
neither fix the time of the day nor the month? A.
373 I am fixing it pretty close when I say in the early
forenoon and the early afternoon.
Q. But within a period of 60 days? A. Yes.
Q. So about all you can do is to say that it was some time
in January or February, 1930? A. I can say it was spoken
over the radio.
Q. That is all you can say—you made no notation of it?
A. Mentally.
Q. No written notation of it? A. No.
Q. That was in response to an inquiry, was it not, sent To
the Doctor? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know anything about who sent that inquiry?
A. Some woman.
Q. You do not know who it was? A. No; I do not know
who it was.
Q. Do you know who prepared it for her? A. I couldn’t
tell vou that. It was all over the radio.
Q. Do you know whether or not it vms in fact sent in by
some woman? A. I couldn’t say that. It was answered as
though it was answered to a woman.
Q. But you do not know who prepared it? A. No,
sir. i
374 Q. Do you know that, as a matter of fact, decoy
letters, if I may so characterize them, were sent in to
Dr. Brinkley along this general nature? A. You may know
that; I don’t.
Q. I am asking you if you know it. A. No; I never sent
anv.
Q. 1 do know it. A. You had better take the stand.
Q. I will, if they want to put me on the stand. But if
this was a decoy letter, you do not know anything about it?
A. It did not make any difference to me whether it was
13—5240a
194
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
a decoy letter or not. The speech went over the radio just
the same and had the same effect.
Q. So if it was a decoy letter it would meet with your
approval just the same! A. No; it would not meet with
my approval.
Q. You are from the State of Missouri, are you not? A.
Yes.
Q. You hold an official position there? A. Yes.
Q. How did you learn about this hearing, Doctor? A. It
has been quite common knowledge in our state that some¬
thing ought to be done-
Q. No; I am asking you about this hearing. A. I read it
in the newspaper.
Q. How did you happen to come on here? A. It is my
dutv. My board directed me to come.
Q. And the board is paying your expenses? A.
375 The State of Missouri is paying my expenses. I have
a receipt for every dime I have spent since I have
been away.
Q. Do you read the Kansas City Star? A. No, sir, I do
not—not regularly; I do not subscribe for it.
Q. Do you not read it at all, Doctor? A. Oh, once in a
great while, just as you might pick up a newspaper off and
on.
Q. It is the leading paper down there, is it not? A. I
would say it is one of the leading papers.
Q. It exercises a wonderful political influence in the state,
does it not? A. I have never felt it.
Q. You have been in politics there for a number of years?
A. Only in the sense of doing good.
Q. Doctor, all politicians think they are doing good, do
they not ? A. In their own estimation.
*
Q. So in your estimation you are doing a great amount
of good? A. I am, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: It depends on what party you
belong to.
The Witness: I am not ashamed of it.
Mr. Holland: That is very apparent, Doctor.
The Witness: It is the same party that you belong to.
Mr. Holland: You have chosen a good party, any-
376 way. I think that is all, Doctor, if that is as closely
as vou can locate the time.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
195
Re-examination on behalf of the Commission.
By Mr. Fisher:
%/ !
Q. You say that all you remember is that it was spoken
over the radio? A. Absolutely.
Q. And it would be absolutely impossible for you to fix
the exact date of day or the exact day of month, or even
the month; is not that correct? A. I say, because I was
paying more attention to the radio in the months of Janu¬
ary and February than I was at any other time during the
year.
Q. It might have been in March, might it hot? A. Oh,
it is possible.
Q. So that you cannot say and you would not want to
tell the Commission that it was absolutely in either one
of those months? A. No; I say that is myi memory as
best I can recall.
Q. You feel, as far as your memory can recall, that it
has been since the first of the vear? A. Yes.
Q. And that is about as close as you can get? A. Yes.
Q. And has not been within the last thirty days? A.
No, because I have not listened over the radio all the
months of April or May—not one moment. j
Q. Getting it as near as you can, it may have
377 been Januarv, Februarv or March?
could be.
Q. Doctor, while you are on the stand, merely to cor¬
rect one matter: you made the statement yesterday about
Dr. Copeland’s lectures as not being in the public interest.
Do you know Dr. Copeland’s connection with the radio
station? Has he any connection with any radio station,
to your knowledge? A. I do not think he has.
A. Yes; it
Mr. Strong: Does he know anything about! it?
Mr. Fisher: As far as he knows, has he any connection
7 r
with any radio station.
i
The Witness: Only as a lecturer over the radio.
Mr. Strong: He does not know that he is not connected
with it.
Bv Mr. Fisher:
+* !
Q. Is he an owner, to your knowledge?
196
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Commissioner Robinson: Wait a moment, gentlemen.
Do not let us get into anything of this kind.
Mr. Strong: Lay a predicate for your examination. Do
not put words into his mouth.
Commissioner Robinson: The Commission knows that
Dr. Copeland uses the National Broadcasting Company
service.
Mr. Fisher: And he is not an owner of radio.
Commissioner Robinson: We know that somebody else
owns it other than Dr. Copeland. What I asked yester¬
day was whether the profession considered even that line
ethical or not.
The Witness: If you will permit me, if you please, your
Honor, I would like to make this statement. The
378 profession considers it unethical for any man be¬
longing to the medical profession to advocate any¬
thing over the radio, not only Dr. Copeland particularly,
but a man who is actually in the act of practicing medicine
on his own or in any way connected with a hospital. Dr.
Copeland is not in any way connected with a hospital and
does not practice general medicine or surgery. I want to
make that statement.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Does he not have a sanitarium? A. He does not.
Q. Is he a specialist of any kind? A. He was Health
Commissioner of the city of New York.
Q. Do you understand that he is not in the practice of
medicine? A. He is not in the practice of medicine as a
member of the Senate.
Q. Do you know whether or not he is paid to deliver
these lectures over the National Broadcasting Company’s
chain? A. 1 would imagine he would be.
Q. Or whether he pays for the privilege? A. I do not
think that he would do that.
Q. You do not know ? A. I do not know.
Mr. Strong: Does the Commission know?
Commissioner Robinson: We do not know.
The Witness: I do know that he doesn’t own a hospital
and doesn’t practice surgery—never did in his life.
Commissioner Robinson: I only asked the ques-
379 tion because it has been asserted that it is not
ethical of Senator Copeland to do what he does.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
197
The Witness: I wanted to make the explanation because,
with due respect to Dr. Copeland, he is not practicing
medicine generally; he has no connection with any hospital
and he is not a surgeon. He has been Health Officer for
many years, and went to the Senate from his office as
Health Commissioner of New York.
By Mr. Holland:
Q. Then, as I understand you, Doctor, in response to
questions put to you by the Attorneys representing the
Commission, you now desire to modify your testimony in
chief when you said definitely, if I recall cbrreetly, that
you heard this either in the month of January or Feb-
•J V
ruary? A. Yes.
Q. Now you want to include March also? jA. It is pos¬
sible. I
Q. Might it not have been in December, 1929? A. No;
because I did not use the radio in December, nor have I
used it in April or May.
Q. You used it all of January? A. Off and on.
Q. And all of February? A. Practically, off and on.
Q. And all of March? A. Part of the time.
Q. When in March did you stop? A. I guess I would
listen in—vou see, my lunch hour is usuallv about
380 1:30 and I am at home for an hour or so then, and
ofttimes 1 take work from my office to my home to
do it. I do it also in the morning before I go to the
office—preparing reports or things like that that I cannot
do in my office.
Q. But you did not do that prior to January 1, 1930?
A. Oh, yes; I have been doing that ever since I have been
in the office.
Q. You did not hear any radio prior to that time? A.
Oh, yes; I heard radio prior to that time.
Q. How are you able to fix this so definitely ? A. Be¬
cause I was doing it regularly because I was at home more
during the months of January and February than I was
at any other time.
v !
Q. And that is the reason you fix it at those times? A.
Yes.
Q. But you might have heard it in December or No¬
vember? A. No; I am sure I did not listen to the radio
in December.
198 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. And you did not listen to it after March? A. In
April or May 1 have not listened to it for a moment.
Mr. Holland: That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Commissioner Robinson: Have vou finished?
Mr. Strong: WeHiave evidence in rebuttal.
Mr. Holland: Do we understand that the State
381 of Kansas, the Kansas Citv Star and the attornevs
representing the Commission have put in their case ?
Mr. Fisher: We closed ours yesterday.
Commissioner Robinson: Where does the Kansas City
Star come in? I have not heard of any appearance for
them.
Mr. Fisher: We object to the statement and ask that
it be stricken from the record.
Mr. Holland: It is alreadv in the record that these affi-
m/
davits were provided by representatives of the Kansas
Citv Star. Let the record stand as it is unless vou want
to go back and correct it.
Commissioner Robinson: There have been no applica¬
tions on behalf of that newspaper to be heard as a party.
Mr. Fisher: There is no record that these were even
submitted by the Kansas City Star. I think Mr. Holland
asked if the gentleman who gave some of these affidavits
to the State of Kansas was an employe of the Kansas City
Star.
Mr. Holland: Xo. That question was not asked—beg¬
ging your pardon.
Mr. Fisher: Xo; it was intimated.
Mr. Holland: It was stated by Mr. Ralston that all of
his affidavits came from-
Mr. Fisher: Xot the Kansas City Star.
Mr. Holland: —a reporter of the Kansas Citv Star.
Mr. Fisher: That does not mean that the Kansas Citv
*
Star put them in at all: and we would like to let the record
show that.
Mr. Ralston: There is nothing here to
382-387 show that the Kansas City Star put any affi¬
davits in here.
Mr. Holland: We are content with that part of the
record as it stands.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
199
Testimony in Rebuttal.
I
388 C. L. Brown was called as a witness for and on
behalf of the applicant, in rebuttal, and being first
duly sworn, testified as follows:
Direct examination. j
I
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Where do you live? A. Corsicana, Teias.
Q. What is your business? A. I am an oil producer.
Q. Are you a patient of the Brinkley Hospital? A. Yes,
sir. I
Q. When did you go there? A. The 5th of last April,
last year, 1929.
Q. What was your condition prior to your going there?
A. I was in bad shape; I was in bad shape.
Q. In what way? A. My indigestion organs was in bad
shape. I urinated every thirty minutes, and I had pains
in my back, so I just could hardly—I couldn’t get no rest
only standing up. That was the best rest I could get, just
stand up all the time. Of course I had to go to
389 bed at night, but I was in misery all the way through.
Q. Had you been to any other doctors? A. I had
no vitality whatever.
Q. Had you consulted with doctors? A. Yes; I went to
five or six of them.
Q. Any specialists? A. Yes. The first doctor I went to
was at the sanatorium. He took my teeth out and gave
me a tonic and told me I would be all right. The next
doctor I went to was in Corsicana, Dr. Brown. He gave
me a tonic and said I would be all right. Thfe next doctor
I went to was in Corsicana. He done the best he could.
He massaged me and washed my drainage canals out. He
gave me a little medicine. I went to Samuels’ clinic in
Dallas, and all he did was just to give me a big bunch of
pills, pills before breakfast and pills after breakfast and
pills, pills, pills.
The next one I went to was in Hot Springs, Arkansas.
I went to the Secretary of the Interior and I says to him —
I explained my condition, and I says, “I want you to give
me the best physician you have in this town; I don’t care
200 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
what it costs.” He said, “I am not allowed to do that,
but I can give you the names of them and you can take
your choice.”
I picked Dr. King. He owns his own sanatorium there,
and all he done was to give me the same treatment that
Dr. — gave me at Corsicana—massages and drainage, and
run a big outfit into me, and even that didn’t do me any
good, and I went back to one of the other doctors and he
treated me, but I wasn’t getting nowhere.
390 So somebody left one of Dr. Brinkley’s pamphlets
on my desk, and then I got into communication with
Dr. Brinkley. I was 14 months sizing him up. I wrote to
the Government of the United States about this treatment.
I corresponded with those patients; I done everything I
could to know that I was doing right, and when I was
convinced I was doing right I went up to see him.
Q. Were you examined? A. Oh, yes, sir.
Q. Were you told that you had to be operated on? A.
No; I didn’t tell the doctor to be operated on.
Q. I say, did they tell you that you had to have an op¬
eration? A. Oh, ves; after they examined me; yes.
Q. What was the operation? A. For enlargement of the
prostate.
Q. Was that gland transplantation also? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What date was that? A. The day I was operated on
was April 6,1929.
Q. When did you first notice a benefit? A. In ninety
days.
Q. Has the benefit continued? A. Oh, I say it has; you
bet.
Q. These ailments that you had—have they been re¬
duced? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have they disappeared entirely? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Would you consider yourself a well man now?
391 A. I don’t see how I could feel any better.
Mr. Strong: That is all.
Examination on behalf of the Commission.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. You have been to a lot of doctors, haven’t you? A.
Yes.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
201
Q. You have had a lot of experience with them? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. And you think that Dr. Brinkley is the j only one that
has helped you, I suppose, of all those doctors? A. Yes;
I feel sure that his operation was really the operation that
I needed.
Q. And therefore you have a lot of confidence in Dr.
Brinkley? A. Yes; I have.
Q. Just as any one else does that finds a doctor that
does help them. A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you took this matter up with various other doc¬
tors, and you say you even wrote the Government? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did you get any reply back from the Government?
A. I wrote to them asking about this here transplantation
of glands, and they didn’t know anything about it.
Q. Have you that letter which you received from them?
A. Yes; I guess in some of my books at home I possibly
have that letter.
Q. But the Government officials wrote you back
392 and said they did not know anythingiabout it? A.
They didn’t practice it. j
Q. They did not recommend it? A. No; they did not.
Q. When did you arrive at the hospital? j A. On April
5, about 4 o’clock.
Q. In the afternoon? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then when were you examined? A. I was examined
that evening about 7 or 8 o’clock.
Q. At night? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many more were examined that night, as far
as you recollect? A. I don’t know.
Q. Were there a lot more there? A. Possibly—I don’t
know. In the bus there was one or two there. I don’t
know whether they were passengers or patients. I didn’t
know nor care either.
Q. How long did it take to examine you ? A. I suppose
we were in there about an hour or an hour and a half,
something like that. We talked quite a little bit.
Q. Did you go to Dr. Brinkley alone, or to some of his
assistants? A. I think Dr. Osborn was the man that ex¬
amined me.
Q. Brinkley did not examine you? A. No, sir.
202 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. He did not come in and talk to you about the
393 operation? A. I saw him that evening and talked
to him.
Q. That was 7 or 8 o’clock at night? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did they notify you then that you would have to be
operated on, or did they tell you the next day? A. They
told me that night; yes, sir.
Q. What time the next day did you proceed with the oper¬
ation? A. About 11:30.
Q. The next morning? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Less than 24 hours after you arrived there? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. You say you received this information from some
pamphlet that some one put on your desk. Do you know
the name of that pamphlet? A. No, sir. I really don’t
know what the name of that was. It was a little book.
Q. “Your Life” or “Your Health”? Was that the name
of it? A. I really don’t know. It had a horse-shoe on it.
Perhaps some of these other people might know the name
of that. It had a little horse-shoe in the front of it. I
read all those pamphlets. I got them all.
Q. You got them all? Did you get “Paw and Maw” and
all of them? A. Yes; I got all I could get, and the book on
vitality, and everything else I could read.
Q. Did you get one by the name of “Life”? A. I don’t
know whether I got that or not; I can’t say.
394 Q. You think you got them all. Here is one
called “Your Health”. Do you remember that one?
A. Yes; I got that one.
Q. And here is a lecture on Stones in the Kidney, En¬
largement of the Prostate Gland—do you remember
whether you got that one? A. I don’t know whether I
could really remember that or not.
Q. Here is “The Story of Paw and Maw”. Did you get
that? A. Yes; I got “Paw and Maw”.
Q. Here is another one, entitled “Life.” Did you get
this one? A. I don’t remember this one.
Q. And these came from Dr. Brinkley’s hospital? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. Did you ever hear him over the radio? A. No, sir.
Q- The information you got was from this pamphlet?
A. A man put that on my desk.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
203
Q. Of course you do not know how he got the informa¬
tion? A. I think it was mailed to him. He lived in Dal¬
las and I lived in Corsicana, and he brought that down
to me.
Q. And you have been feeling well ever since? A. Ever
since the operation; yes, sir.
Q. Have you been to any physicians since then or
395 back to Dr. Brinkley, or anything? A. Well, I
went to Dr. Brinkley for a recheck after that, but I
have not been to no other physician.
Q. On your way east? A. Yes; coming out here; yes.
Q. Did you come back with Dr. Brinkley? A. Yes, sir;
he came out here.
Q. On the train? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How did you know about this case coming up here?
A. Let’s see: how did I find that out? Oh. I saw one of
those little outfits in the newspaper, condemning him and
calling him a quack, and all like that, and I had to write to
him anyway, and I just pinned that in the letter and sent
it to him and he wrote me.
Q. That there was going to be a hearing? A. No; wrote
me a letter about something I had to say to him about the
complaint, and I got a telegram asking if J would go up,
and I told him I would.
Mr. Fisher: I think that is all.
!
Cross-examination.
Bv Mr. Ralston:
Q. What did you pay for your operation? A. $750. It
is worth $25,000. I gave him a check for $675 and gave
him $75 cash.
Q. You did that before the operation was performed?
A. Yes. He didn’t ask me for it; I voluntarily gave it
to him.
|
396-421 Re-examination on behalf of the Commission.
By Mr. Fisher: j
Q. Just one more question. When did Df. Brinkley tell
you that the condition of your health would be improved?
A. Nobody didn’t tell me that.
204
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. How lone: did he say after the operation that your
health would he improved? Did he tell you that? A. No,
he didn’t. I will tell you who first told me. It was a man
out in California that was there at the time, and I went
back and got home I wrote him a letter.
Q. To Dr. Brinkley or the man in California? A. No;
this gentleman out in California. He lives in Santa Cruz.
I have forgotten his name, but I know his address. He told
me that in about 90 days I would be feeling good, and I felt
good right away. It wasn’t long; it was only about ten or
twelve davs, and in another 90 davs mv vitalitv started to
come back to me.
Q. You have been working since that time? A. Oh, yes;
as soon as I got home.
Q. You had been working right along before that? A.
Yes. I had a bottle of medicine everywhere I went.
Q. Have you been using any of Dr. Brinkley’s prescrip¬
tions? A. Not a drop since I left the hospital; not a drop.
Mr. Fisher: That is all.
(Witness excused.)
422 Frederick Neaderhiser was called as a witness
for and on behalf of the applicant, in rebuttal, and,
being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Direct examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. What is your business? A. Fanner.
423 Q. Where located? A. Manchester, Kansas.
Q. How old are you? A. Seventy-three years old.
Q. Have you ever heard Station KFKB over the radio?
A. Yes, for a long time.
Q. Have you heard all of its programs? A. I don’t
hear all of them, but I hear them if I want to.
Q. Did you ever hear any of Dr. Brinkley’s lectures or
the Question Box? A. Lots of them.
Q. Do you enjoy hearing those programs? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you ever heard anything of an obscene or in¬
decent nature over that radio? A. No, sir.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
205
Q. Have you heard anything of a false nature? A. No,
sir; not that I konw of.
Q. You were a patient at the hospital? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How did you come to go there? A. I listened to him
for three or four years. I have had a radio in my house
for five years, and I listened to him at different times, to
his lectures, and I finally made up my mind, a year ago last
March, to go over there. I wrote him and tcild him to send
his lecture to me, and he did, and I read it and
424 studied it a long time. Finally I had a brother die
with cancer, and this brother complained a good deal
like I had been complaining for quite a while. So they
finally took him to Salina and operated on him, and he
died.
Q. Where was he operated on? A. At Salina, Kansas.
Q. In the hospital? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did they operate on him for cancer? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Fisher: Was this his brother?
Mr. Strong: Yes.
Mr. Fisher: We object. It is immaterial as to what hap¬
pened to his brother.
Mr. Strong: You have introduced testimony here show¬
ing that some people have died at this hospital, and I want
to show that there is no guarantee that any one is not go¬
ing to die.
Mr. Fisher: There is no contention that some do not die
at any hospital. W r e admit that.
Mr. Brown: It is going far afield.
i
I
By Mr. Strong:
Q. What operation did you go there for? A. To find
out what caused me to have to get up nights so much. For
about three or four years I couldn’t rest in bed; that is,
I couldn’t hold my urine, and I would get up from five to
six times a night and sometimes, in the winter time, nine
and ten times a night.
Q. You went there when? A. I went there the 24th of
March, if I have got it right, a vear ago.
425 Q. 1929? A. Yes.
Q. What operation was performed on you? A.
Just the major onorntion.
206
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. You do not know what it was? Is that the one they
call the four phase compound operation? A. They ex¬
amined me first—no; that is not the four phase operation;
just the other.
Q. For the removal of the prostate? A. Yes—no; not for
the removal of the prostate; for reducing it.
Q. Was that done? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you pay for that? A. I paid $356.50, I
think.
Q. Were you benefited? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you had that trouble that you have referred to,
since then? A. I didn’t notice that it done a great deal
of good until about two months afterwards, but I gradually
got better, and now I don’t have to get up at all in the night,
unless I go to bed right early, and then only once in the
night.
Examination on behalf of the Commission.
Bv Mr. Brown:
Q. You went down to the hospital for an examina-
426 tion? A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time did you arrive there? A. About
the 24th of March.
Q. In the morning or evening? A. No; I thing I went
over there one afternoon.
Q. How soon were you examined? A. I wasn’t examined
until towards evening.
Q. When were you operated upon? A. The next morn¬
ing, or the next forenoon, about 10 o’clock, as near as I
can tell.
Q. Who performed the operation? A. Mr. Osborn.
Q. Dr. Orborn? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long did you stay at the hospital after the opera¬
tion? A. I stayed there—I went there on Sunday and went
home the next Sunday.
Q. You were there about six days? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How far is your place from Milford? A. About 38
miles.
Q. Did you take an anesthetic? A. No, sir.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
207
Commissioner Robinson: Was this a goat gland substi¬
tution ?
The Witness: No, sir.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. This is what they call the two phase operation 1 ? A.
Yes.
427 Q. You paid $356.50 for that? A. I think that is
right. I have the check yet. j
Q. Who told you, after you had been examined, that
you were to take this particular operation? Who at the
hospital there told you? A. Mrs. Brinkley came and talked
to me about that. I had been talking to others about it
there. She told me that I had an enlarged prostate, and she
says, “The chart shows that you have two small tumors
up in here (indicating).”
Q. Is Mrs. Brinkley a doctor ? A. She says she is; yes,
sir. She has not done any doctoring for me.
Q. Was she present when the operation was performed
on you? A. She was there, around there; yes.
Q. What appears to be her duties around the hospital—
that of business manager? or what? A. She is business
manager and she helps the doctor. She is an awful busy
woman.
Q. Have you been back for a check up since your opera¬
tion? A. I went back a week ago Monday morning. I had
taken my wife over there about a month before and had
her examined and she had high blood pressure and Bright’s
disease, which I knew there was something w r rong for sev¬
eral years and I couldn’t get her to go. I went there and I
finally got her over there and had her examined and she
found that out and she was awful glad she went after she
had gone through with it.
428-458 Q. Was there any reason why you went over
for this check up at this particular time? A.
No, sir.
Q. Was it at this time that you found out about the
hearing to be held before the Federal Radio Commission?
A. No; I have read the papers and I heard the proceeding
in Topeka was on.
208 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Did any one invite you or ask you to come to this
hearing- to testify! A. No, sir. Oh. Ask me to come to
this hearing? No; they asked me whether I wanted to come
to Washington. I said, “Yes; that is a place I have never
been and T will never get there anv other way.”
Commissioner Robinson: How did they ask vou that—
over the radio?
The Witness: No, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: Was there anv announcement
over the radio with regard to witnesses volunteering to come
to Washington or a call for them to come?
The Witness: Not that I heard.
(Witness excused.)
459 Tiberius L. Jones was called as a witness for and
on behalf of the applicant, in rebuttal, and, being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Direct examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. What is your name? A. Tiberius L. Jones.
Q. What is your business or profession? A. Physician.
Q. How long have you been a physician? A. Since 1911.
Q. State your education? A. Graduated from the Uni-
versitv of Tennessee in 1911. I immediately left for New
York and took the examination and made an 18 months
service in Bellevue and allied hospitals and completed my
service and received a diploma from the Bellevue and al¬
lied hospitals in New York City. I left the New York hos¬
pital, the Fordham Hospital, in New York, on'July 1st;
sailed September 7 for Cerro de Pasco, Peru, and w T as put
in charge as chief surgeon over the Goyllarisquie Railroad,
employing about 4,000 men. I conducted the hospital there
until my contract was up, and I stayed a little over six
months after my contract was completed, two years or two
and a half years, and returned to the United States with
the intention of going into the Army. It seemed as though
was was imminent down there; and, when I returned to
America along in December-
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
209
460 Q. Of what year? A. 1915; but there were no war
clouds flying in this country, and I decided that I
would practice medicine in Memphis, Tennessee. I was
there until the following year, until 1917. I stayed there
during 1916 and 1917. j
j
Commissioner Robinson: What are you qualifying him
for?
Mr. Strong: I want to qualify him as an expert physician
and surgeon.
Commissioner Robinson: He is not a patient?
Mr. Strong: No; this is one of the doctors of the Mil¬
ford Hospital. |
The Witness: And I was going to Hot Springs to take
an examination for the United States Army, and Dr.
Brinkley wrote me and told me that if I would come to
Kansas I could be commissioned in the Natibnal Guard in
Kansas. So I moved over to Kansas. That was somewhere
I
early in the spring, either March or February—I don’t
know just when it was. I know there were terrible roads
and bad weather. I received my Kansas commission on
the 16th of May. j
By Mr. Strong:
Q. What rank? A. First lieutenant, in 1917> I was called
into service August 5, 1917, and later assigned to the 35th
Division and I trained in Camp Donovan, Oklahoma.
Q. Did you go over seas? A. Yes; the next spring.
Q. What work did you do over seas? A. In the Ambu¬
lance Corps.
461 Q. Did you do surgical work? A. I did field work,
out in the field. I was with a combat division. We
were on the fighting line all the time.
Q. Did you operate? A. I didn’t have any opportunity
to operate, because we were out on the line all the time;
but I stopped bleeders and things so they could be sent
back to the field hospitals.
Q. After your service over seas, then what? A. I re¬
turned home with the expectation of being discharged; and
I was crippled up quite a bit.
I was sent
to Fort D. A.
14_5240o
210
KFKB BKOADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Russell, Wyoming. I remained there until May and was
finally discharged after having several teeth pulled and all
my teeth worked on.
Q. When did you become connected with the Brinkley
Hospital? A. That same fall, in 1919.
Q. What were your duties there, Doctor ? A. My duties
have always been that I was paid for what I did. If I as¬
sisted Dr. Brinkley I was paid so much for that. If I gave
an anesthetic it was so much for that, and if I saw a person
in the house I got so much for that. My location was at
W~akefield, Kansas, during that time, and the work got too
hard, day and night. I started out in a little town and got
to making calls in a radius of 18' to 30 miles, and there
was too much work, so I decided I was losing-
Q. How long were you in general practice? A. I am
still in it, until I got sick last year.
462 Q. I thought you were in the Milford Hospital.
A. I am right there in Milford now. I moved in
1924 from Wakefield.
Q. You have been in the general practice about how
many vears? A. Nineteen vears.
♦ * •>
Q. Do you know what conditions are in Kansas with re¬
gard to the roads? A. Oh, my God! I have walked and
I have ridden horseback; I have ridden in hay wagons and
have done everything else.
Q. In order to get — your patients? A. In order to get
to my patients. I did that winter before last,
Q. Did you ever prescribe over the telephone? A. I
have, hundreds of times.
Q. Were they always people that you had seen before?
A. Some of them were and some were not.
Q. Were those prescriptions reasonably satisfactory?
A. I never — anv kick against it.
Q. Did you have any trouble collecting your fees for
that kind of treatment? A. Not yet.
Q. Based on your training and experience in hospitals
and your knowledge of the functioning of hospitals, how
does that hospital in Milford compare? A. I spent most
of last summer in Battle Creek Sanitarium, and I think that
the care in Milford far surpasses the personal atten-
463 tion at the Battle Creek Sanitarium. The Battle
Creek Sanitarium is so large that you—well, you
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
211
unless YOU
al? A. As
see vour nurse when your medicine is due; and:
ring for her you don’t see her.
Q. Are they thorough at the Milford Tlo^pit:
thorough as they can possibly he.
Q. Are they careful? A. Yes.
Q. Do you know what their method of conducting an ex¬
amination of a patient is? A. A patient starjts out with
his history, and his ears, eyes, nose and throgt are gone
over, his chest and his alxlomen, and the general appear¬
ance of his physique, after his history—that is all checked;
blood pressure, specimen of urine taken; blood; and a Was-
serman.
Q. Any X-rays taken ? A. The chest—there is always a
fhioroscope made of the chest and abdomen.
Q. Do you know anything about this compound opera¬
tion? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you read the literature? Do you j know any¬
thing about the matter of the glands? A. Yes, jsir.
Q. State to this Commission the function of I the glands
of the human body. A. Glands, in my opinion] are a gen¬
eral tonic to the entire system. If you vaecihate a man
against smallpox you have got a scar on the arin, and that
goes through his system and keeps him from having
464 smallpox. These glands build up the system to the
extent that they gradually increase instead of de¬
crease.
! *
Q. The statement has been made that “A man is as old
as his glands.” Is that substantially true? A. That is
taken from one of the old Greek authors, as I Understand.
A man is as old as his glands; that is true.
Q. This compound operation—have you observed its ef¬
fect on people? Have you ever examined them when they
came back? A. Hundreds.
Q. Does it benefit them? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are you in position to describe that compound opera¬
tion? A. Well, I have not been active in a little over a
year in doing them, since I was hurt.
Q. Have you ever performed that operation? A. Yes,
sir.
Q. Can you describe it? A. Yes.
Q. Will you do so? A. It is a very simple operation.
The only reason that there is any fight about it is because
no one else tries to do it, and they have hard luck at the
212 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
beginning; and then they quit. They don’t stay with it.
A patient is examined and selected as being a suitable case
for a transplantation; and a transplant is not done indis¬
criminately at all. If a man has any diseased pros-
465 fate his operation is performed in order to benefit
the prostate, not just to give him new testicular sub¬
stance. That is not at all what it is for.
Q. It is not given for sexual rejuvenation? A. No.
Q. Ho you ever represent that that is the reason? A.
No, sir.
Q. Have you ever heard that represented to any one? A.
Not that I have ever heard of in mv life.
Q. By Dr. Brinkley, of course, or any of the surgeons
there or nurses at the hospital? A. No, sir.
Q. Now go ahead and describe this operation. A. An
incision is made on either side of the scrotum. The skin
is drawn back and an incision about half an inch Ions: or a
little longer, 1 and the skin is very pliable. It can be re¬
tracted so that the two fingers can easily be placed in to feel
and see exactly what the condition is that is found in the
testicle, and the vas deferens is brought up, stripped from
its sheath and, if necessary, it is incised and antiseptics
are injected in through the vas into the prostate and also
back into the testicle. If there is any disease there at all
it is taken care of. That is tied off—in a very large pros¬
tate the vas is tied off and taken out and resected from the
internal ring right down to the testicle, to the epididymis—
is resected and taken out. A groove is cut there, and the
branches of the cremasteric artery and nerve and a part of
the cremasteric muscle is laid into this groove and fixed to
give new blood and new nerve supply to the scrotum,
466 and a tie off is made in order to cause a congestion
to fill these parts with blood. And then that is
closed up and the gland is put in-
Q. "What is that gland? A. The testicle of a young goat.
It must be a high class goat. These little ordinarv hill
goats will not work at all. We tried them. They did not
work. But these will do the work.
That is sutured over. Then the tunic is covered over
that and the skin is closed with a subcutaneous stitching,
only sticking out at the end, a small piece of gauze is put
in there and tied, which completes the operation.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
213
It used to take me about 16 minutes. I am not as easy
a sewer and cannot go as fast as some of the Others.
Q. Have you any idea how many of those operations you
have performed? A. Four or five hundred. I have had
three patients go in from my private practice;. I only do
office practice, just consulting work in the office, consulta¬
tion, and I have sent three patients in in the last four
months for that work. j
Q. Is it your observation that this operation is beneficial
to these people? A. I certainly believe in it, and possibly
some day I will have it myself if I ever need it.
Q. At about what age do most men have trouble with
their prostates? A. We have had them from 18 and 17
years old up to 70.
Q. What is the majority? A. Between 40 and 50,
467 or 40 and 55, I would say.
Mr. Strong: No further questions.
Examination on behalf of the Commission.
Bv Mr. Fisher:
Q. You say you have been connected with the hospital
how long? A. Since 1919.
Q. What rank did you hold in the Army? A. I was dis¬
charged as Captain; made a Captain the 7th of August,
1918. I was on the field and did not get my; commission
until about Christmas. The war was all over.;
Q. And then you came back and went out to Kansas and
have been practicing there with Dr. Brinkley since that
time? A. T opened an office at Wakefield, Kansas, nine
miles from Milford, but I came down every day that there
was any operating and assisted Dr. Brinkley.
Q. Then you have been assisting Dr. Brinkley and are
familiar with his methods and his procedure there since
1919? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are you familiar with his methods of broadcasting?
Have vou heard his broadcasting station there? A. I hear
quite a bit of it.
Q. You have occasion to listen to it, do you not? A. Ido.
Q. You know that he broadcasts these lectures and
468 invites people to write in for different health books
and the like? A. Yes, sir.
214 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Have you ever had occasion to broadcast yourself
over the radio station? A. No, sir.
Q. You never did? A. I have announced a time or two,
just for a few minutes.
Q. You never read any of his lectures over the broad¬
casting station yourself? A. I have read some of them,
and some that were particularly interesting to me, that were
particularly interesting stuff-—he would instruct that we
look those up and we would read them and get all the
authorities we could find and look it up.
Q. And advise him on them? A. IVe used to talk about
it. Three or four of us together would have a discussion
about it.
Q. And he would take your advice in the matter and then
prepare his lectures and lecture over the broadcasting sta¬
tion? A. T don't know just what you mean there.
Q. Would he change his lectures to conform to some of
your ideas or some of the stuff- A. As far as I know—
I don’t know whether he had written the lecture then or
not, whether he already had one prepared.
Q. But you have heard him broadcast them over
469 the station KFKB ? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you have heard him invite the public at
larae to write in for the lectures and the various pamphlets
that he got out? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you had occasion to hear over this broadcast¬
ing station, KFKB, Dr. Brinkley and his Question Box?
A. That happens right at a time of day that I don’t have
an opportunity to listen in.
Q. Have you never heard it? A. I never have.
Q. Then you do not know what he is saying over the
radio with regard to the question box? A. I have read a
few of the letters, and that is about all.
Q. That have come in there? A. Yes.
Q. You do not know what comments he made over the
radio? A. No, sir.
Q. You do not know his practice in looking into them or
how he answers them, or anything like that? A. He has
got a book in his hand and a gang of papers.
Q. While he is broadcasting he has a book in his hand
and a gang of papers? A. I mean, all the time; not while
he is broadcasting alone. He is studying all the time.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
215
Q. You have been there since 1919? A. Well, off
470 and on.
Q. Have you been sick, yourself, Doctor? A. I
have had pneumonia twice and was taken care of there;
and blood poisoning in my right hand.
Q. What is the matter with it, Doctor? A. I am
paralized now, or was in this finger and hand (indicating).
1 had an embolism last June.
Q. That is what made me ask you. Did you not say
something about going to Battle Creek? A.j I was in Bat¬
tle Creek for the embolism. The hospital was getting
ready to close there, and Battle Creek is an old institution
that has treated these cases since fifty years or more, and
I thought they ought to know more about embolism than
anybody else in the country. So I went to Battle Creek
and was very well satisfied with my two months there, and
I am improving every day.
Q. You are improving now? A. Yes.
Q. But you have not fully recovered the us^ of your right
arm? A. No; it will probably be two or three years yet.
Q. This operating that you have referred to was all done,
I presume, before you got sick—or when I was it done?
These four or five hundred patients? A. That was before
I was ever sick. I was doing general surgery, all the sur¬
gery that came my way.
Q. When were those operations performed? A. 1922,
1923, and 1924 and along in there.
Q. 1922, 1923 and 1924? A. Yes.
471 Q. Were you doing them under Dr. Brinkley’s
supervision and in his hospital? A. We were right
together, working right together.
Q. When did you start doing those operations? A. When
my practice got so big that I couldn’t attend to the country
practice—my practice work got so big I decided to leave
Kansas, because it was too much work.
Q. To leave Kansas? A. Yes.
Q. Where did you go then? A. To Memphis, and was
gone about six or eight months, and returned to Milford,
Kansas. j
Q. Then there was a period between 1919 and now that
you left Kansas and came back? A. Yes, sir; from March
until about September, something like that. I took some
special work over there in the University.
216
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. When you refer to performing four or five hundred
of these operations, yourself, Doctor,—that is known as the
four phase compound operation you are referring to? A.
Some were and some were not. The last ones I did were
the four phase compound operation.
Q. How many of that kind did you do? A. I have no
idea.
Q. They were not four or five hundred? A. I don’t know
whether they were or not.
Q. That you did alone, or you and Dr. Brinkley to¬
gether? A. I have done quite a few of them myself
472 without Dr. Brinkley being there.
Q. How many? A. I have no idea.
Q. When did this operation come into existence? How
long has it been used, in other words, to your knowledge?
1919 or 1920? A. 1920, I guess. Dr. Brinkley had been
experimenting with it then for years. I don’t know how
long.
Q. You say in this experimenting that you do not use
any common hill goats? A. No; not these little wild goats.
Mr. Strong: You did not say that in the experimenting
you did not use them. What you did say was that as a re¬
sult of the experiments they could not use them.
By Mr. Fisher:
*
Q. In the experimenting you did use some of those goats?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have anything to do with the experimenting?
A. Yes.
Q. You helped him carry on those experiments? A. Yes;
I would go right through with them.
Q. Were those hill goats that you refer to used in the
ordinary operation for experimental purposes for a while?
A. A few of them; yes.
Q. And you felt that those folks did not get the proper
results, so you confined your efforts to the high class
473 goat? A. That was all free stuff during that time.
Q. But you still performed it on human beings?
A. Yes.
Q. For those operations of four or five hundred that you
referred to, about how many goats would that take? A. A
goat for each man.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
217
Q. That is your procedure: you use those same glands,
just one goat to one man? A. Yes, sir.
Q. This was all done in the course of ten to sixteen
minutes, the complete operation? Is that correct? A.
Yes. I think Dr. Brinkley can do it in ten or twelve
minutes, or something like that. It depends entirely on the
type of man that you work on. j
Q. What do they do with the goats after they get through
with them? A. They are cremated or buried.
Q. Is it necessary that the goat be killed after that? A.
If anybody wants him they can come after him.
Q. Is it necessary to kill them? A. Oh, np.
Q. You would not have to? A. No; you can turn them
loose.
Q. But you did not continue that kind of a practice; you
killed them? A. If anybody wants goats running around
over their place they can have them.
474 Q. Where do these goats come from? A. Arkan¬
sas, I think. They come in by express, but I don’t
know a thing about that.
Q. That is all you know, that they come in by express, but
you do think they come from Arkansas? A. Yes.
Q. You have been there in recent years? A. I left there
the other day and came up here.
Q. How many of these patients are they operating on a
week, now? A. I would say—I don’t know how many, now,
since I left; but it usually runs about 18 to 20 a week.
Q. Of the goat gland operations? A. Yes,
Q. That is what is called the compound four phase oper¬
ation? A. I don’t know whether they are all compound
four phase or not, because last Monday morning there was
a breast case-
Q. No; I don’t mean that. I mean that the four phase
compound operations are the goat gland operations? A.
Yes.
Q. That is referred to in the booklets and so forth? A.
Yes.
Q. What is the two phase operation? A. That is just a
prostate reduction, on the prostate alone. It doesn’t have
anything-
Q. No rejuvenation at all? A. No tonic effect on the
bodv.
218
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
475 Q. That does not necessitate the using of goat
glands, of course? A. No; but if I were doing it I
would not attempt to reduce a man’s prostate unless I could
put glandular tissue in him.
Q. In other words, you think the two phase operation is
not successful? A. It is successful in the reduction of the
prostate.
Q. But it does not give him any building up effect? A.
None whatever. He is just a worn out shoe, and that is all.
Q. Just living- A. He can pass his water without
any trouble after six months or a year.
Q. But you recommend the four phase operation? A.
That is the only way I would accept a patient.
Q. You think that does build them up and make new men
out of them, as it were? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And continues their vitality? A. It doesn’t make a
new man out of them, but it makes them live like they want
to live at that age.
Q. Just what do you mean by that? A. I mean, a man
that is going around groaning all the time and can’t eat
and can’t put On any weight or can’t feel good—he gets
over that.
Q. He gets over all that? A. Yes.
476 Q. Does it create any new sex desire in him? A.
I am not sure about that sex. It is by building up his
vitality, his general physical condition.
Q. Is this four phase compound operation of any benefit
for the disease of diabetes as has been testified to here,
Doctor? A. A number of men have come in with diabetes
—that is, a complication with prostatic enlargement. A
man can have enlarged prostate and also have diabetes.
But that diabetes is treated, dieted and by medication along
the same time, and the patient when he leaves the hospital is
instructed to continue that diet and report back as often as
possible.
Q. The operation alone does not remove a diabetic condi¬
tion? A. No; I have never heard that claimed.
Q. You heard some lady on the witness stand say she
took the operation—a gentleman, I guess it was. A. An
operation for prostate?
Q. Excuse me—a gentleman on the witness stand stated
he had taken this operation for diabetes and had fully re-
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
219
covered and did not have any sugar in his urine. A. Did
you ask him if he was carrying his diet out like he was di¬
rected to?
Q. He did not refer to any diet. A. Did you in any way
ask him?
Q. No. He said he took the operation and it fully cured
him of diabetes. A. That was Mr. Smith, was it not?
477 Q. They would take this diet in addition, would
they? A. Yes, sir; certainly.
Q. Has Dr. Brinkley or the hospital there ever trans¬
planted any human glands in any of these patients? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. How often does he do that? A. Whenever anybody
wants them and pays for them.
Q. How much does that operation cost? A. I don’t
know. That is not in mv end of it.
Q. Didn’t you ever hear? A. I am not at the financial
end of the institution. That is not any of my business.
Q. What is the nature of that operation? A. It is
simply to go out and buy a gland from a hale, hearty man
and it is taken out of the man and transplanted immediately
into the patient that is the recipient.
Q. And the operation is practically the same as far as the
actual physical operation of the incision, and the place, and
everything like that? A. Yes; I can’t see any difference in
the goat gland and the human gland.
Q. You cannot see any difference? A. No, sir.
Q. And you do not know how often that operation is per¬
formed? A. No, I don’t.
Q. Once a week, would you say? A. Nb; I don’t think
so. Maybe once or twice or maybe three times in a
vear.
*
478 Q. But you do know that that is a very expensive
operation? A. Yes, I do. I know ijt is very expen¬
sive to obtain the gland.
Q. In regard to this goat gland operation, I believe you
testified that no one else is trying that. By that you mean
that no other doctors have accepted that: theory or that
practice? A. There are quite a few that have accepted it
and there are quite a few in the country thkt are doing it.
Q. How many would you say? A. I imagine, a dozen in
this eountrv.
220 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. In tlie entire country? A. Yes.
Q. And when you made the statement that no one else
tries it, you meant only a very few out of the thousands of
doctors try it? A. I didn’t mean that nobody tried it.
Two doctors came from California and stayed up there a
week or two in order to get the technique, and they left and
went to work, but whatever they have done I do not know.
Q. You do not know to your own knowledge? A. No; I
know they were perfectly satisfied, because the patients
are right there in town that have gone through the mill and
they are all right.
Q. “Through the mill”—you mean, gone through the
operation? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can you name any doctor besides Dr. Brinkley!
479 A. I know a doctor in Paris who writes very, very
much about it.
Q. But any one in this country? A. Simmons, I believe
his name is, in California.
Q. Can you name any others? A. No; I don’t believe I
can.
Q. That is the only one whose name you have heard? A.
Unless I would go and dig up a lot of papers.
Q. But to your own personal knowledge, that is the only
other accepted physician and surgeon? A. Those are the
ones I have read after.
Q. But you have only read of ten or a dozen in the entire
United States? A. I read the publications—I have not
read one in a good long while—from California. I have not
read any of Voronoff’s in a year because I have not felt like
doing very much reading.
Q. But all you know about this is that there may be a
doctor by the name of Simmons and you have heard of ten
or twelve that may be performing this operation in the en¬
tire United States? A. Yes.
Q. You say you have heard of these books that Dr. Brink-
ley has sent out in pursuance of his radio talks to people
writing in for them? A. Yes.
Q. Would you say that there is any promise on the part
of Dr. Brinkley or his hospital staff that there is any
480 sex rejuvenation? A. No.
Q. No promise of that kind made by the Doctor?
A. No, sir.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
221
Q. You are very positive of that? A. I am very posi¬
tive.
Q. I want to refer you to an exhibit here and ask you to
examine it and see. It is entitled “Life” and says at the
bottom, “Compliments of the Brinkley Hospital, Milford,
Kansas.” It is Commission’s Exhibit C. I refer you to
page 4 and page 7 of this exhibit and ask you to read that,
Doctor.
Mr. Strong: What is that book?
Mr. Fisher: It is an exhibit, your Honor.
Mr. Brown: It has been admitted.
Mr. Holland: It has been marked for identification only.
There is no proof that it was sent out by the Brinkley Hos¬
pital.
Mr. Brown: That is right on the front; and Dr. Brink-
lev’s name is on the book. It is in evidence. You have the
*
right to contradict it, Mr. Strong.
Mr. Strong: This gentleman says he has never seen it
before.
Commissioner Robinson: A number of pamphlets were
permitted to go in.
Mr. Strong: But those were government documents.
Commissioner Robinson: No;—the story of “Paw and
Maw.”
Mr. Strong: They offered them; we did not.
Commissioner Robinson: Thev went in with the
481 reservation that the Commission would give them
consideration and rule as to their pertinency.
Mr. Holland: That particular pamphlet did not go in, in
that wav: and if you want to go back to the record you
will find it was simply marked for identification, the theory
being that they would connect it up with the hospital later
on.
Commissioner Robinson: Mv attention has not been
called to it, but presumptively it is connected with the hos¬
pital.
Ar r. Strong: I do not think so at all.
M r. Fisher: Oh. yes. it is. It says so on the front of it.
Mr. Strong: There has been no proof that that document
hao over been referred to.
Commissioner Robinson: That is right. I think that is
the point I made when it was under discussion before.
222
KKKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
There is a piece marked here, and if it is similar to what he
has been putting out over the radio, it is competent.
Mr. Strong: This witness never saw it before.
Mr. Fisher: It is our contention that the books are sent
out by Dr. Brinkley in pursuance of the talks that he makes
over the radio, urging people to write in for this informa¬
tion; that this is information that is sent out under that
pretext. This witness has said that Dr. Brinkley has never
made any statements with regard to sex rejuvenation. It is
our contention that this book, under his name, and sent out
in pursuance to the radio, has such a statement in it.
482 The Witness: I said, to my knowledge.
Mr. Strong: Counsel says it has some connection
with the radio station, but you have never proved it by
anv evidence.
w
Commissioner Robinson: This proof tends to show that
by the use of the radio there is a distribution of literature.
Mr. Strong: But not this literature.
Commissioner Robinson: 1 am going to rule that it may
go in, because it bears the imprint of the hospital.
Mr. Strong: We take exception to that.
Commissioner' Robinson: It may be assumed that it is
actually one of his publications unless it is contradicted.
This case shows that by the use of the radio there is a dis¬
tribution of this literature.
Mr. Strong: I object to that, your Honor. I want to make
at this point an .objection and state that this case does not
show that this piece of literature, “Life,” is in connection
with the broadcasting station or that it has ever been sent
out pursuant to a broadcast.
Mr. Fisher: It is our contention that all this literature is
sent out pursuant to broadcasting and bears the same im¬
print on the front and back-
Mr. Strong: That is counsel’s contention.
Commissioner Robinson: The paper may go in for what¬
ever evidence it is. It says “Compliments of the Brinkley
Hospital, Milford, Kansas.” That word “Compliments”
implies a distribution and a receiving of it.
Mr. Fisher: And it is signed bv J. R. Brinklev
M. D.
483 Mr. Strong: Not signed. There is a name there.
Commissioner Robinson: Is it not a fact that that
is one of their publications?
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
223
The Witness: Not so far as I know, your Honor.
Mr. Holland: The evidence here is, Judge, that it has
been out of print for two years.
Mr. Fisher: Your evidence, yes. You have a right to
contradict that.
Mr. Holland: I am saying that there is no evidence at all
of it, because there is not one scintilla of evidence that that
was ever sent out pursuant to any broadcasting bv Dr.
Brinkley or anybody connected with his hospital.
Mr. Strong: It is dated 1928.
Commissioner Robinson: In one view of the;
know how far it is within the province of this Commission
to decide about schools of medical thought; but if it goes
into that, then it is proper for us to say whether that is
good medical thought or not. I do not know that this case
will come to that consideration.
case I do not
Mr. Fisher: It is admitted, your Honor?
Commissioner Robinson: It is admitted as the others
were, for consideration and determination of its relevancy
by the Commission.
Mr. Strong: I object to this witness being called upon to
read anything from this, because he says he has never seen
it before; and it is not proper cross-examination to at¬
tempt to put into his mouth or have him state what is in that
document. The Commission has admitted this over
484 our objection. If you want to read some of it, go
ahead and read it.
Mr. Fisher: May it please your Honor, I will be fflad to
read this into the record, because if I am correct, this wit¬
ness stated on both direct and cross examination that Dr.
Brinkley had never advocated any sex rejuvenation. You
remember that distinctly, your Honor-
Mr. Strong: Over the radio.
Mr. Fisher: I do not care whether it is by radio or-
Mr. Strong: He is speaking of his own knowledge. This
does not discredit him in any sense.
Mr. Fisher:' He may say he has never heard of this. That
is what I am asking him right now.
Mr. Strong: Are you trying to show he has heard of it?
Mr. Fisher: No; I am trying to show that Dr. Brinkley
did make the statements. He can say yes or no.
Mr. Holland: Do vou expect to connect It up with Dr.
Brinklev’s broadcast?
• I
224
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Mr. Fisher: In the manner of the other exhibits, yes; that
this is one of the pamphlets that went out as a result of his
urging people to write in.
Mr. Strong: You have not shown that. Are you going to
do that?
Mr. Fisher: We have done that.
Mr. Strong: You have not connected this up with any
broadcast.
Commissioner Robinson: What is your question of
485 the witness?
Mr. Fisher: My question was to read this article
and see what it has to do with regard to sex rejuvenation
which, in his direct examination, he said that Dr. Brinkley
had never advocated.
Mr. Holland: No; he said he had never advocated it over
the radio.
Mr. Fisher: I do not care whether it is over the radio
or by publications over his name.
Mr. Holland: But you have not connected it up as being
sent out over the radio at all.
Mr. Fisher: I think it has been ruled upon. I want the
witness to read over that paragraph and answer yes or no,
if he has ever seen that article and if he knows anvthing
with regard to it.
Commissioner Robinson: Let him read it.
Mr. Strong: We want to take an exception to that.
Mr. Holland: Read it to yourself.
Mr. Fisher: Let the record show that it is on page 7 of
“Life.”
Bv Mr. Fisher:
Q. Have you seen that before? A. No, sir.
Q. Then you have not read that article, Doctor? A. No,
sir.
Q. Then when you said that Dr. Brinkley did not make
any promises of sex rejuvenation, you meant as far as you
knew or what you had heard him say or what you might
have read that he wrote? That is what you meant
486-488 by that? A. I don’t get that.
Q. You remember you made the statement that
Dr. Brinkley did not claim any sex rejuvenation for this
operation or this method? A. That I had ever heard of.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
225
Q. That is what I mean—of your own knowledge. Just
one more question. What relation are you to Dr. Brinkley?
A. Brother-in-law.
Q. You married his sister? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Fisher: That is all.
5
(Witness excused.)
489 W. C. Purviance was called as a witness for and
on behalf of the applicant, in rebuttal, and being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
I
Direct examination.
i
By Mr. Strong:
Q. What is your name? A. W. C. Purviance.
Q. What is your business A. Physician and surgeon.
Q. Where are you located? A. Milford, Kansas.
Q. What has been your education and experience? A.
Well, I have an A. B. degree from Park College. I have
my M. D. degree from the Kansas City School which was
amalgamated with the University of Kansas, and we have
now become an alumni of the Medical Department of the
University of Kansas with all the branches connected there¬
with. I graduated from the College of Physicians and
Surgeons in Kansas City, Missouri.
Q. State your experience, Doctor, please. A. I served
as intern in the Sherman Hospital in Kansas City, which
is now the Research Hospital. I served under the
490 United States Government at Leavenworth, Kan¬
sas, as Assistant Military Surgeon. |I served six
years in Japan under the Presbyterian Board of Foreign
Missions.
Q. Doing surgical work? A. I was in charge of a hos¬
pital. We treated 8,000 cases a year. I came back to this
country and have been in private practice in surgery ever
since 1914.
Q. How long have you been at the Milford Hospital?
A. Since February 8.
Q. Of what year? A. This year.
Q. Have you had occasion to perform this compound op¬
eration? A. I have. .
15—5240a
226 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Would you explain what that operation is? A. I will
be glad to. The operation as performed now, in short, may
be described as a double injection of the vas, a double
vasectomy, a double transplantation. Surgeons ought to
know what that means—a transplantation of glandular
tissue, an injection of both vas and the ligation and re¬
moval of both vas.
Q. Doctor, based on your experience as a surgeon and
your experience at the hospital since February, what is
your opinion as to this operation? First, as to the feasi¬
bility of gland transplantation of a goat gland to the hu¬
man- A. Well, w T e are doing it right along and the
glands are staying in.
Q. Have you had occasion to check up on any of
491 these patients to find out as to whether- A. I
have checked up on men who were operated on dur¬
ing the past week. I checked up on men who were op¬
erated on three or four years ago, and the glands are still
there.
Q. What had seemed to be the effect, if any? What did
they report to you? A. The patients that I examined
seemed to be benefited. You ask them how they were get¬
ting along, and they say “Fine.”
Q. Did they say that any of their former troubles had
ended? A. Oh, we take a history of a patient like that,
and there are instances where we take their blood pres¬
sure and there are instances where it has dropped from
240 or 250 down to 170 and 180.
Q. After this operation? A. Yes. There are cases of
men who were getting up to urinate five or six times a
night, and now not urinating at all at night. There are
men who were bothered all day and now they are taking
care of their work; men who were absolutely nervous
wrecks who today are performing their duties.
Q. Do you think that is as a result of that operation? Is
that your opinion? A. I am convinced that it is.
Q. This (exhibiting) is Kansas Exhibit No. 1, which has
been introduced in evidence. It says “Established 1917.”
Do you know whether that publication is still put out? A.
As far as I know, it is. I do not have anything to
492 do with this.
Q. You do not know whether it is or not? A. No.
My work has nothing to do -with that.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
227
Q. Will you read this portion over to yourself, at the
bottom of page 9? I think it is the same as the page 10
to which you referred in evidence. A. (Reading:) “Be¬
cause we must have more nerve-energization directed
through this vas into the human gonad to produce the de¬
sired proliferation of the life-giving, energizing, vitalized
Leydig cells. Likewise we borrow the services of a branch
artery, and this is delicately anastamosed down alongside
the vas into the epididymis Now you see we have ener¬
gized and caused to proliferate these important Leydig
cells and have provided by means of the new arterial blood
supply”- |
Q. And read this last part. A. (Reading:) “not only
increased nourishment for the human gonad but an avenue
for the escape of whatever living cells may be manufac¬
tured there directly into the blood streams so that these
important secretions may find their way to the parts where
they are needed.”
Q. Now read it over to yourself, please.
A. It can.
(Witness reads as requested.)
Q. Were you here when Dr. Young testified that that
could not be done! A. Yes, sir.
Q. In your opinion, can it be done!
493 Q. How can it be done! A. I never have per¬
formed the operation. Our technique changes. We
do not perform the same operation on the same people.
Some have one operation, some another.
Q. I am not asking you that; but I am asking you as to
whether that particular operation can be performed, in
your judgment. A. Well, I think it can. I never have
performed it personally.
Q. May I ask you as to whether or not iii your expe¬
rience in the hospital it is possible to reduce the prostate.
A. It is not only possible, but it is being done.
Q. You are doing it there at the hospital! A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you hear the testimony of Dr. Edgerton to the
effect that it was not possible! A. Yes. Well, of course,
I naturally would differ from Dr. Edgerton because I have
examined prostates that have been operated on three
months previous and I found those prostates smaller than
they were when we operated on them. You say it cannot
228
Ki KB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
be done, but we are doing it; and there is nothing will prove
a thing like the eating of the pudding. There is always
some one ready to sav it cannot be done; but when a man
sees it done every day and examines those patients two or
three months afterward, and some are operated on three
or four years before, and finds those prostates practically
normal, it does not make any difference, much, what they
sav.
*
494 Q. In regard to the feasibility of prescribing over
the telephone—have you ever prescribed over the
telephone? A. I have had to do a lot of it.
Q. Has that been reasonably satisfactory ? A. Well, yes.
I had to do it. There are conditions arising when one has
to do that, and I have not seen any untoward effects from
it as far as my experience is concerned.
Q. 1 suppose when you prescribed over the telephone
you are careful to prescribe things that are not injurious?
A. Yes.
Q. What is your procedure when a patient comes to you?
Don't you pay some attention to his description of his own
symptoms? A. Yes.
Q. What about the general practitioner out in Kansas,
if you know?: Is it not customary that they pay a great
deal of attention to the description of the symptoms by
the patient? A. Sure. That patient as a rule has been
around to see half a dozen doctors before he gets to you,
and the doctors are not all fools. Thev know what is the
*
matter with a man pretty well; and a patient comes to you
and he tells you his symptoms and tells you what the other
doctors said, and many times they are right—lots of times.
Mr. Strong: That is all.
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. I want to ask a layman’s question and one
495 which may not be relevant at all to a decision of
this matter, but I ask it innocently because I know
nothing about it. Can you engraft a human nerve cell
from one individual to that of another? A. A human nerve
cell ?
Q. Yes. A. I doubt it. You can graft nerve tissue in
the same individual. You mean, transplant nerve tissue?
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
229
Q. Or a collection of cells. A. Yes. That can be done.
I have seen cases where a man had a paralysis of the arm
and nerve tissue and muscular tissue was grafted on to
the arm and the man had the use of his arm.
Q. The engrafting of goat glands you say is feasible. Do
they always actually attach and grow, or do some of them
die by failure of blood circulation? A. Well, most of them
V 7 i
grow.
Q. Have you, after the engrafting of one of these, seen
it attach? In other words, has the profession now proved
that by later looking in again and seeing the graft, it is
living and functioning? Of course the only graft' that I
can imagine is that of the apple or peach tree. A. Yes.
I cannot say. I never have personally. We can graft
bone, and the same principles that are used in bone graft¬
ing are used in grafting glands.
Q. Would the glands of an animal lower than that of
man fit? Would it live? Would it engraft najturally? A.
Some will and some will not. In certain animals the
i
glandular tissue seems to be favorable for grafting
496 and in some it is not. We found that the goat pro¬
vides the best tissue for grafting purposes; and it
is a recognized fact that any surgeon will testify to, that
any two tissues brought together, raw tissues; will adhere
and start circulation.
Q. In this phase of the case, if at all relevant to whether
this station should have a license, I observe this, Doctor,
that it is not a recognized medical practice yet. Is not
that true? A. Well, I was reading an article not long ago
in one of our leading medical journals and it was an article
written by one of our doctors who went over to Europe.
He said that when he went over there he went over to scoff
at this glandular operation, and it was made fun of in this
country and talked about, and he said when lie got over
there he was filled with wonder and amaze'ment at tlie
progress it had made in Europe and the wonderful results
they were getting.
Commissioner Robinson: That is all I havle.
230
KI-'KB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Examination on Behalf of the Commission.
Bv Mr. Brown:
*
Q. 1 believe you stated, Doctor, that you checked up
somewhat recently on some who had been operated upon
for the four phase compound operation some throe or four
years ago. What kind of a check did you make of them?
A. We checked them over physically.
Q. 1 am asking you what kind of a check you personally
made. A. Oh. Well, we examined their urine. In
497 many of those cases some have sugar in their urine.
We check upon the urine. Many of them have high
blood pressure. We check up on that high blood pressure.
Many of them have retention of urine up to 16 ounces—
and for the benefit of you men perhaps who are not fa¬
miliar with that term, that means an amount of urine is
left in the bladder after a man gets through urinating and
he is carrying sixteen ounces of residual urine around with
him all the same. Many of them have those conditions.
In many of those cases that I have examined, where a man
showed sixteen ounces of residual urine, he didn’t have
any. Where he showed high blood pressure, his blood pres¬
sure was down to 170 and 180, which is very good for a
man 60 or 70 years old. And the urine was absolutelv
normal. He had previously been loaded with sugar. We
examine the prostate gland.
Q. What kind of an examination do you give it ? A. The
prostate?
Q. Yes. A. The only examination you can give, prac¬
tically—physically.
Q. I believe you stated that some of those who had these
glands transplanted some three or four years ago still have
them? A. Thev have.
*
Q. How do you tell that that is true? A. Feel them.
Q. You are positive that you can tell by that method?
A. I know where the glands are put, and I know
498 what they feel like when they go in. I ought to
know what they feel like after they stay there.
Bv Commissioner Robinson:
Q. I would think that you would have a ease now and
then where they did not engraft, out of so many_not out
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
231
of any fault of the surgeon—then what would be the re¬
sult of that dead tissue in there?
The Witness: It does no harm whatever. If that graft
is going to take, it is going to take; and if it is not going
to take it is not going to take, and it will gradually slough
out as we call it. It will come out with the secretions in the
form of small drainage, or it comes out of the very open¬
ing where it went in. Absolutely no harm at all.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. Where those glands have been put in and you feel
them, is there any enlargement? A. Yes; some of them,
after you put them in and examine them two or three
months later, are larger than they were when they were
put in—showing that the circulation has been established
through that gland and has nourished it and that gland
is growing.
I
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. How do you tie them together? A. "V^e don’t tie
them. I
Q. How do you attach them? The only grafting I have
ever done was on apple trees, where you make a wax com¬
pound, and they do not always grow; they do not always
attach. How do you actually do it? A. It is like a seed
in the ground. You put it in the soil; you furnish
499 it with moisture, and what occurs ? It grows. What
happens to the seed? It is the same thing.
Q. Would not the blood vessels of the man |have to meet
up in the proper way with the new gland so as to provide
circulation? A. No, sir; the same principle applies there
that applies in bone grafting. When you graft a bone,
after it is healed you have no idea of the original bone left.
Nature uses that bone as a trellis work and she throws
out little fine blood vessels and nerves into that bone and
builds up her new bone from the osteoblast.
Q. As to bone, you are putting two pieces together and
of course it would carry the circulation from one to the
other? A. Yes.
Q. Some, anyhow? A. Yes.
232 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Is that true as to this? A. The only reason the bone
grows is because you preserve the periosteum or cover¬
ing around the bone; and the only reason these glands
grow is because you put them in a sac which is well fur¬
nished with circulation and nerves and it has the proper
heat to maintain that gland, and the little vessels begin
to form and work their way out into it and nourish it. We
do not graft end to end, but anastomose. That would be
impossible.
Bv Mr. Brown:
*
Q. This goat gland that you put in there—that has a sub¬
stance that is somewhat foreign to the human gland in
which it is put, is it not? A. A foreign sub-
500 stance ?
Q. Somewhat foreign; yes. A. Not a foreign
substance. It is a glandular substance.
Q. How is it kept there? How is it attached? A. It is
sewed in. It is sewed in a sac.
Commissioner Bobinson: You lodge it in there?
The Witness: You bet you we lodge it—sew it in so that
it cannot move, and when we close the sac the gland is in
there. Adhesions begin at once. In 24 hours there are
adhesions. If that gland is going to slough out it will do
it in two or three days. If it does not slough out, it stays.
Commissioner Robinson: With all this success, why is it
that Johns Hopkins, as one example—of course there are
others—don’t do the same thing?
The Witness: I cannot answer that. It may be their
fault, not ours.
Commissioner Robinson: Have they experimented, any
of them?
The Witness: I believe that we are just as far ahead in
this glandular treatment as some of these fellows that
tried to introduce new practices into the medical profes¬
sion years ago. When they tried to introduce vaccination
they were all quacks. When they tried to prove that in¬
fection was carried on the hands of physicians from one
woman to another—and the one who tried to convert the
medical profession died in an insane asylum. When Henry
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
233
Ford made his first car they called him a fool. I
501 remember when Marconi talked about making it pos¬
sible to talk through the air, and we all pointed to
our heads. j
I think in this proposition, we are ahead in it. No mat¬
ter whether the other fellow does it or not, we are doing
it, and it works.
By Mr. Brown: !
Q. How long have you been doing it there, Doctor! A.
I have only been there since February 8.
Q. How long has it been done in the Brinkley Hospital!
A. I understand it has been done there twelve or thirteen
years.
Q. Do you know any one else who is performing the
same operation! A. No; I do not.
Q. You cannot name any one! A. No; fyut I do know
this, that the first man that was operated on in Milford
is there today—a good, strong, healthy man.
By Commissioner Robinson: j
Q. Of course you read the medical books and journals
and medical literature. Is it or is it not true that all the
medical thought in the standard works and the current
writings is against the principle! A. No; it is not.
Q. What do the Mayo brothers say about ijt, if anything!
That question may not be pertinent. A. I icould not say.
I do not know what they say about it. But I think there
is plenty of proof that can be brought forth that
502 there are plenty of men in favor of it. It is one of
those mooted questions in the medical profession
which we always have and always will have.
j
By Mr. Brown:
Q. Can you name anybody besides Dr. Brinkley that is
performing operations in the United States in this same
manner! A. I am not familiar with any one.
Q. And this Paris man that you spoke of^-is not he the
same gentleman that Dr. Young stated had been discredited
by the Medical Association in London! A. I could not
say that.
i
234 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. Do you think it is good practice to prescribe over the
telephone for a patient that you have never seen and one
that may be in a serious condition? A. Well, I would not
prescribe for a man over the ’phone if he was in a seri¬
ous condition. But I do not think it is the practice there
at the hospital, what I have heard of it. I have not heard
very much of it.
Commissioner Robinson: This is prescribing over the
radio.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. You would not do that, would you? A. I might under
certain conditions.
Q. In an emergency, yes; but I mean- A. I think
it depends upon the ability of the man that is dbing the
prescribing.
Q. Do you think that Dr. Brinkley has ability? A. He
might have that ability while I would not.
503 Q. Do you think anybody has the ability to diag¬
nose a case and to prescribe where in some cases
ignorant people do not know their own ailments or symp¬
toms? A. I think in those cases prescriptions that are
sent out over the radio are absolutely harmless.
Q. Your justification is that the prescriptions sent out
are harmless? A. I do not mean that, but prescriptions
of diet. When you tell a man to take cod-liver oil and
maltine and drink plenty of good milk and cream and drink
orange juice and keep his bowels open and do not eat so
much, limit his diet, you are not going to hurt him.
Q. Or take No. 50 or 98 or 93? That would not hurt
him either? A, No, sir. It is the first principle in medi¬
cal practice—and you will read it in any medical book—
the first thing you do is to clean out the bowels and keep
them clean, and a good physic will cure a large number of
their troubles if they do not take anything else. Every¬
body takes physic and they do not know what is in it.
Q. You do not prescribe physic for all ailments? If a
man is in a serious condition you do not give him physic?
A. There might be cases where he would not require a
physic.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
235
Q. But you do not believe that would be a very good
practice for all physicians to adhere to and carry out, do
you? A. I would not say, all.
504 Q. You think Dr. Brinkley is an exception and
is capable of doing that sort of thing? A. Knowing
his ability I would say he is capable of doing that kind of
word while I might not be.
Mr. Brown: I think that is all.
Cross-examination.
By Mr. Ralston:
Q. When did you perform your first compound opera¬
tion? A. Oh, I was there two or three months, a couple
of months, before I performed my first operation.
Q. You went there in February? A. Yes; February 8.
Q. You did not perform any compound operation for
several months? A. I said a couple of months after I had
been there.
Q. You began performing them about the first of April?
A. February or March—I cannot say.
Q. How are these glands transmitted from the goat to
the human? A. How do they get them?
Q. How do you get them from the goat? A. We cut
them out.
Q. Do you do it immediately or do you take some time?
A. We get a goat gland fresh. If we want to operate on
three or four patients today we go down and take out the
glands and bring them right up to the hospital.
Q. How do you take care of the glands until they
505 are implanted in the human body?; A. They are
wrapped in their capsule until we get ready to use
them, and then they are taken out under stbrile conditions
until they are transplanted.
Q. How long does it take to do that? A.
entire operation?
Q. Yes, from the goat to the man? A. The entire opera¬
tion will consume anywhere from 15 to 25 j minutes.
Q. Then it only takes about 15 to 25 minutes to take the
goat glands to the man? A. We bring the glands up and
have them handy there.
You mean, the
236
KFKB BKOADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. That is what I am getting at. How long does it take
to get them from the goat to the man? A. As fast as
we want them.
Q. How much time does it take? A. I couldn’t say; I
don’t know how long it takes. They go down to the barn
and get the goat glands and bring them up. It would be
but a short time.
Q. You do not know, then, how long it does take? A.
No.
Q. Are you licensed to practice medicine and surgery
in Kansas, Doctor? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ralston: That is all.
Redirect examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. Counsel for the Commission asked numerous wit¬
nesses here, and seemed to be surprised that people
506 would come in in the evening and would be examined
and operated on the next morning. Is that some¬
thing unusual? Is there anything unusual about that?
A. No, not necessarily.
Q. Is this operation such a difficult matter, once you
know the technique, that it requires an exhaustive examina¬
tion and preparation?
Commissioner Robinson: We have been over that, Mr.
Strong, two or three times.
(Witness excused.)
0. M. Owensby was called as a witness for and on behalf
of the applicant, in rebuttal, and being first duly sworn,
testified as follows:
Direct examination.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. What is your name? A. 0. M. Owensby.
Q. What is your business? A. Physician and surgeon;
Pittsburg, Kansas.
Q. How long have you been there? A. Since 1909 or
1910.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
237
Q. Wlmt is your education? A. I am a graduate physi¬
cian, regular, allopath.
Q. You are an allopath? A. Yes.
Q. Are you a member of the American Medical Asso¬
ciation? A. Yes.
507 Q. Have you ever been to the Brinkley Hospital?
A. Yes.
Q. State the circumstances in regard to your going there
and what you discovered. A. There was a friend in Pitts¬
burg who has a drug store, and he has filled my prescrip¬
tions for years and he has been talking to me about the
Brinkley Hospital and the Brinkley medicines, and it some¬
what aroused my curiosity. I was rather prejudiced against
him and his institution. He kept talking to me. So Sunday
night a week ago, at 9 o’clock, he came td my residence
and asked me if I would do him a favor and go with him.
I said, “Where are you going?” He said, “Come and get
into the car and I will tell you. ’ ’ I said, ‘ ‘ Are you going to
take me for a ride?” He said, “No; I want to take you up
to Brinkley’s.” I hesitated a while. He said, “I will show
you through the clinic. ’ ’ He had had his wife there for
some ailment, and I thought it was an opportunity to find
out how things were going, so I just went for curiosity. I
felt I had an invitation to go, and there was no reason why
I should not go; and we went. j
We got up there about 7 o’clock the next morning. I was
invited to come into the operating room where the doctor
was operating, and I went and was treated very courteously.
I saw Dr. Brinkley do a hysterectomy—remove a woman’s
womb. He did it in a verv clever, satisfactorv manner as
a good operator and good surgeon; and I began to get
my eyes open then to the fact that maybe he was not a
quack. I watched the way the nurse handled the patient
and the way the doctors worked in handling their
508 patients, and it really converted me; and I was talk¬
ing to patients on the street who ha<J had this gland
operation and had been there for prostate reduction, or
whatever they call it, and every one seemed to be very much
pleased and enthused over the result; and I just had to
take back what I had been thinking before. I am telling
you frankly.
238
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Q. What is your surgical experience? A. I have done
major surgery for twenty years or more.
Q. Have you ever had a hospital of your own? A. Yes.
Q. Have you performed difficult surgical operations over
a period of years? A. Anything that comes to me.
Q. Did you become fairly familiar with the procedure
at the hospital, the method of handling patients and the
way they were examined and what happened ? A. No—not
the examination. I did not see them examine. I know the
surgical technique and the way they treated the patients
during the operation.
Q. From what you saw of the hospital what impression
did you form as to the way in which it was conducted?
A. I could not see but what it is conducted as good as any
hospital I ever was in. It is above the average.
By Commissioner Robinson:
Q. Do you get the Milford station? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you listen to it much? A. No, sir; I do
509 not. I am not at home at the hours thev are broad-
*
casting. I listen mostly between 9 o ’clock at night
and midnight.
Q. This drug store friend of yours—I suppose he fills
these radio prescriptions for Dr. Brinkley, does he not?
A. He does.
Q. Do you know how many he fills? A. No. He told
me-
Commissioner Robinson: That would be hearsay.
By Mr. Strong:
Q. You are here as an expert witness? A. I suppose
so.
Q. You are being paid by whom? A. My time is being
paid for by Dr. Brinkley.
Q. And you are here as an expert witness in his employ
to come here and testify as an expert in regard to what
you have observed? A. Yes, sir. He asked me if I would
come to Washington. I told him I was very busy and did
not care to spend the time. He said he would like to have
some one, if I would come, and I told him then that I would
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
239
expect my time to be paid for if I came, and be said that
was all right.
Commissioner Robinson: This expert testimony is to
prove Dr. Brinkley a good surgeon?
Mr. Strong: Yes; that he went there prejudiced and
saw the technique there and had heard about Dr. Brinkley
being a quack, and he changed his mind.
Commissioner Robinson: Is that the issue?
510 Mr. Strong: It has been raised here. I am not
attempting to have any length- examination of this
witness. It is merely in rebuttal of what they have put in.
Examination on behalf of the Commission.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. You say that this druggist friend of yours fills these
prescriptions as they come over the radio from Dr. Brink-
ley’s KFKB station? A. I do not think I said that. I said
that he filled his prescriptions. The patients come in in
large numbers.
Q. You do not know the numbers of the prescriptions?
A. Nothing more than what I have heard since I have been
here in Washington.
Q. As an expert would you say that it was good practice
to prescribe for patients over the ’phone that you do not
know and that may have a serious ailment at the time?
A. That could be verified. If I had to confine all of my
practice to such practice I would not do it. But I do a lot
of prescribing over the telephone. Even by mail I have
sent prescriptions to Kansas City and to different towns,
and during the storm last winter I sent prescriptions by
’phone to surrounding towns and places where I could not
have gone.
Q. Are they not usually folks that you know and know
something about their condition? A. Yes, usually they are;
but if a person were to call me up—and sometimes they
do there out in the country, or even in town—and ask
511 my opinion about what they could do for relief, I
would give it to them.
Q. You would not do that unless it was an actual emer¬
gency, would you, Doctor? A. I do not know that that
240
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
would be an emergency. They could walk to the office or
could come to the office if they wanted to, but a lot of people
won’t do that.
Commissioner Robinson: Would it be good for the public
health for the medical profession to take up that line and
practice over the radio generally by inviting letters sent
in and saying they would reply to it tomorrow evening in
the letter box? If one doctor does it and has a license to
do it, another one is entitled to do it. Of course we have
not the channels. But suppose we devoted the channels
to that; do you think it would be in the public interest to
convert the profession into that sort of a practice of medi¬
cine ?
I have a clear, open mind on the case, but I look at one
slant and then another.
The Witness: I want to be perfectly frank about it, just
as if this is nothing to me whatever, which it is not any
more than I don’t like to see one man tramped on when
he is not in the right mood to be or in the right position
to be. I do not see why there would be any objections to
using the radio for this purpose for Dr. Brinkley, any
more than the fact that the rest of us cannot do it. If I had
the same opportunity he has to do it, and these other gentle¬
men had, I believe they would do it. It is a question of the
medical profession, 1 think, and me as well as the rest of
them. I know it hurts mv business a little bit, but that
doesn’t keep me from telling the truth about it.
512 Commissioner Robinson: Would it be a good thing
to give to the Battle Creek Sanitarium, which has
been mentioned, a radio service, to Dr. Kellogg whom I
have heard lecture many an evening, and have him invite a
description of ailments and then tell the patients what
to do? Never see them, but prescribe for them at long
range ?
The Witness: There is a lot of people who do not get
medical attention unless they get it that way. You would
be surprised to know that out in the country people will do
so many foolish things instead of getting medicine. I have
known them to pick up cow dung off the ground and make
poultices rather than go to a doctor that would help them.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
241
They give babies syrups and teas and one thing and another
rather than take advice from some one who would gladly
prescribe for them, possibly for nothing. They can sit at
the radio and listen to those things. There are two sides
to it. There may be some harm and there may be a great
deal of good. I am not in position to say. jBut I know I
was prejudiced, and there are a lot of things we have been
prejudiced about that -we have got to open our eyes to. I
remember that when I first started practicing medicine we
had a discussion in the American Medical Association as
to whether an automobile was fit for a doctor to use or
whether it was policy to use it; and one doctor, in discuss¬
ing why they could not use it, said that driving from one
place to another he did not have time to study his cases
properly and he thought it was a wrong thing to do.
We are up against this thing just now.
Commissioner Robinson: Maybe he is right; maybe
513 that, is what is the matter with the medical pro¬
fession.
The Witness: A man cannot get around quickly enough.
Commissioner Robinson: You all seem to disagree.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. Are you familiar with the so-called four phase com¬
pound operation? A. Not any more than what I have
learned since last Monday a week ago.
Q. What was that ? A. What you have heard here today,
mostly.
Q. Specifically, what did you learn? A. I learned the
method of operating. 1 have consulted several of the pa¬
tients that have been operated. I have examined some of
them, just for my own satisfaction, not at their request.
Q. What kind of an examination ? A. I stripped a fellow
in one of the buildings today and examined him to see if
the glands were in there and where they were put in, and
he had told me all the ins and outs of the operation; and
evidentlv they are there.
Q. You are satisfied from your examination? A. Yes,
sir.
Commissioner Robinson: Are they alive? j
16—5240a
242 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
The Witness: It is not reasonable to think it would be
alive according to the way I look at those things. It is
not a question of those glands living and growing and re¬
producing. The question is the storing up of energy there
that is being absorbed as time goes along for the next five,
ten, fifteen or twenty years, or whatever the life of
514 the process is, that stimulates a revitalization of the
body. There are things about this gland operation
that I think us fellows who have opposed it have misunder¬
stood. 1 have fought him and talked about him and called
it unjust and all that, but I am willing to take it back. I
think the rest of the profession will when they learn it.
Q. Are you converted to the gland operation? A. I am.
Q. Do you read medical journals? A. Quite a bit.
Q. Do you know of any other doctors in the United States
who are using that method? A. I do not know of any one
who is publishing records. There has been quite a bit of
experimenting, and I have done quite a bit of the vas in¬
jection myself, but I have never tried to graft goat glands.
Q. Is. not that sort of a common operation, the vas in¬
jection? A. Yes, sir.
Commissioner Robinson: What is that operation?
The Witness: It is in connection with the cord leading
from the testiqle to the prostate gland. I never open the
skin to do that. I pull the skin down tight, take a fine
needle and a hypodermic syringe and slip into this vas and
push the fluid in and it goes into the seminal vessieles.
By Mr. Brown:
Q. Since you have been converted to the four phase com¬
pound operation are you expecting to advise your
515 patients to indulge in that operation? A. There are
certain classes of patients—I don’t think this should
be done promiscuously with every person that comes along,
but I do not think Dr. Brinkley is doing it. It is for a
certain type of patient.
By Mr. Fisher:
Q. You say the only reason why other doctors do not
use this method of prescribing over the radio is because
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
243
they have not the means themselves? A. And the op¬
portunity; yes, sir.
Q. You mean by that, they have not a radio of their own?
A. Thev have not a radio of their own and tiiev have not
► i •/
possibly the means to keep it up and pay the expenses to
carrv on the business.
%
Q. You feel, then, that every doctor that wants to pre¬
scribe by this method and operate this way should have a
channel from the Commission just the same as Dr. Brinkley
has? A. I think it would be all right. I would like to have
the opportunity myself.
Q. Yes; that is what you said. A. And I think most every
other doctor would do the same thing.
Commissioner Robinson: There are eightv-nine channels.
O * I
flow manv doctors are there in the United States?
The Witness: About fourteen thousand, I think.
Commissioner Robinson: Of course any physician could
go and buy time on a station like WRC.
516 Mr. Strong: They could buy it on this station—the
members of the American Medical Association—if
they want to come out there. They can do so.
The Witness: How much would it cost for five minutes a
day?
Mr. Strong: I do not know.
The Witness: I would like to know.
Mr. Strong: I do not know what the regular rates are,
but there is a schedule that we are going to supply. I think
it is the regulation rates.
Commissioner Robinson: We wish a ratei card in the
record.
Mr. Strong: Yes, sir. I think it is the rates of the Na¬
tional Association of Broadcasters.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Strong: That is all we have to present.
What is the procedure that you require in presenting
these cases? Do vou usuallv have argument at the end,
or do you have argument before the full Commission, or
just what is your procedure?
Commissioner Robinson: I will ask Judge Svkes to an-
swer that question.
244
KFKB BKOADOASTIXG ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Commissioner Sykes: Judge Robinson asked me to an¬
swer you, Mr. Strong, on that. Ordinarily you argue your
case, if you so desire, before the Commission. The reporter
takes down your argument for the benefit of the other Com¬
missioners when they come to an examination of the record.
In a few cases, at the request of counsel, the entire Commis¬
sion has listened to the argument.
517-521 Mr. Strong: That is what we would like to
have in this case.
Commissioner Robinson: That will be a matter for the
Commission, and I am doubtful whether it can be granted,
in view of the state of our work.
Have von closed?
Mr. Strong: So far as we are concerned.
Commissioner Robinson: As presiding Commissioner I
would like to ask if you are going to put Dr. Brinkley on.
Mr. Strong: The reason Dr. Brinkley has not been ten¬
dered is because he has to go on trial on the 17th of June
before the Kansas State Medical Board on complaint look¬
ing to the possible revocation of his license to practice, and
the Assistant Attorney General for the State of Kansas who
is presenting that matter to the Board—Mr. Ralston is
here at the table and has been interviewing and examining
witnesses, and we feel that everything which the Board
could present has been presented at the request of counsel
who are representing him before that Board.
Commissioner Robinson: That is acceptable.
I understand vour side has finished?
Mr. Fisher: We rest.
522 Docket Xo. 835.
App. Exhibit 7.
Hart, Dice & Carlson, Official Reporters.
May 20, 1930.
Introduced at Hearing Before Federal Radio Commission.
Affidavit.
State of Kansas,
County of Geary, .<?.<?:
Howard H. Wilson, of lawful age, being first duly sworn
on his oath, deposes and says:
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
245
My name is Howard H. Wilson; I am an office executive
by occupation, and reside in Milford, Geary County, Kan¬
sas, and have lived in this community since thb date of my
birth; I am married, the father of one child, and am 30
years of age.
In the fall of 1929 I assisted, along with others, in the
organization of the KFKB Broadcasting Association, Mil¬
ford, Kansas, and upon its being admitted to legal status
in the State of Kansas, and at the first meeting of the
stockholders of the said corporation, I was elected Secre¬
tary-Treasurer of the same, which office I have continu-
ouslv held, and have had charge of the books and records
of said incorporation.
At this writing, May 15th, 1930, the following named
persons are the stockholders of the KFKB Broadcasting
Association, Incorporated, of Milford, Kansas, together
with the amount of stock held by each:
Chas. Baker, Contracting Painter and Deco¬
rator, Junction City, Kans. ... .1. 100 shares
L. McChesnev, Cashier, Milford State Bank,
Milford, Kans. j. 100 “
Chas. A. Brown, Electrical Contr., Junction
City, Kans. j. 100 “
1). D. Denver, Sr., Fire Insurance, Milford,
Kansas ... 100 “
i
Bay P. Martin, Auditor, Manhattan, Kansas.;. 10 “
H. O. Bowles, Plumbing and Heating Contr.,
Junction City, Ks.j. 100 “
Chas. B. Trimmer, Executive, Kansas Citv,
Mo. j. 100 “
523 J. R. Brinkley, Surgeon, Milford, Kan-
/ /
sas .|. 3 “
Walter Brown, Teacher of Music, Lindsborg
College, Lindsborg, Kansas . j . 1 “
Chester C. Brewer, Automobile Salesman,
Manhattan, Ks. .j. 1 “
M. T. Brinkley, Business Woman, Milford,
Kansas .j. 381 “
W. H. Emerson, Lumber business, Manhat¬
tan, Kansas . 1 “
Hurst Majors, Mayor of Manhattan, Manhat¬
tan, Kansas
< i
1
246
Ivr KB BTJOADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Thos. B. Kennedy, President of the First Na¬
tional Bank, Junction City, Kans.
Howard H. Wilson, Executive, Milford, Kan-
S3.S .
1 share
1 “
And Affiant saveth further not.
HOWARD H. WILSON,
Secretary-Treasurer,
KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc.
State of Kansas,
County of Geary, ss:
On this 15tli day of May, 1930, before me, the Under¬
signed, a Notary Public, in and for the county and state
aforesaid, appeared Howard H. Wilson, who is to me per¬
sonally known, and who by me being first duly sworn upon
his oath, stated that he had read the foregoing affidavit,
that the matters and facts therein set forth were true, and
that he, the said Howard H. Wilson, at the time of the
signing of this affidavit, was the Secretary-Treasurer of
the KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc. of Milford, Kan¬
sas, and had a legal right to make said affidavit, as the
Secretary of said corporation, and in behalf of the said
corporation.
[Seal of L. McChesney, Notary Public, Geary County,
Ivans.]
L. McCHESNEY,
Notary Public within and
for Geary County, Kansas.
My commission expires Jan. 6, 1932.
Commission expires-,-.
524 Affidavit.
Filed 6/2/30. J. H. R.
State of Kansas,
County of Geary, ss:
Howard H. Wilson of lawful age being first duly sworn
on his oath deposes and states as follows:
My name is Howard H. Wilson; I reside in Milford,
Geary County, Kansas, and have lived in this community
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
247
all my life, and at the time of the making of this affidavit I
am the business manager, and Secretary-Treasurer of sta¬
tion KFKB, of Milford, Geary County, Kansas; I have
held this position since the organization of the broadcast¬
ing station incorporated.
Affiant further states that the programs submitted here¬
with and attached to this affidavit are the programs of the
different features that were broadcast from radio station
KFKB of Milford, Kansas, beginning with the date of
January 27, 1930, and ending with the date of May 26th,
1930. |
Affiant further states that the programs herein set forth
are the programs as broadcast from this station, with the
following exceptions, the exceptions not shown on the at¬
tached program being talent hired to increase the variety
of the regular sustaining programs, it being understood
that the programs as submitted herewith are given by regu¬
lar talent who devote their entire time and attention to sta¬
tion KFKB, and have no outside interests.
On various occasions we have employed Zapatas’ Nov¬
elty Troubedours, consisting of four Filipinos. These en¬
tertainers have met with considerable success over the
Kansas City Star station, as well as other stations.
A male Quartette from Inman, Kansas, has been em¬
ployed on various occasions.
Rev. Hinshaw of Belpre, Kansas, has given interesting
lectures dealing with school life, and the uplift of young
manhood and girlhood.
HOWARD H. WILSON.
525 While the annual conference of the Methodist
Episcopal Church was convened in Kansas City,
Kansas, KFKB was one of the nine stations selected by the
conference over which the proceedings of the conference
were broadcast, and several sermon-lectures were given
by leaders of this institution.
June Layton and his ten-piece dance orchestra from
Manhattan, Kansas, has been employed here on different
occasions.
Mrs. H. T. Osborne of Monett, Missouri, a very popular
soprano singer.
Stone Bros., old-time orchestra from Junction City,
Kansas.
248
KI'KB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Stalder Bros., popular accordianists of Wakefield, Kan¬
sas.
Dick Head of Hays, Kansas, tenor soloist.
Mr. Anderson of Junction City, Kansas, accordian solos.
Mrs. Leda Paul, Clay Center, Kansas, soprano singer.
Mrs. T. L. Jones, Milford, Kansas, soprano singer.
The Hokum Kings of Wichita, Kansas, Harmony enter¬
tainers.
Mrs. Twila Stauffer, soprano singer, Oberlin, Kansas.
The Kansas Wesleyan University Quartette, Salina,
Kansas.
St. John’s Military Academy of Salina, Kansas, with 20
or more people in various group entertainments.
Another thing we do not show on our attached program
is the Swedish Bible service broadcast every Friday after¬
noon from 3:30 until 4:00 o’clock by a licensed minister of
the Swedish congregation. This Bible service is in the
Swedish language and is very much appreciated.
Another feature we do not show on our regular program
is everv Fridav afternoon between 4:00 and 4:30 o’clock,
the well-known International Bible Student’s Association;
these people have been using this station since it was con¬
structed in 1923 and have seldom missed a program.
Another service we have not shown on this program is
that of Sunday school and other religious talks as broad¬
cast certain week days without a specified time.
Another exception not shown on this program is the
sponsored time by our advertisers.
HOWARD WILSON.
526 Another exception to this is the daily broadcast
of the American League, the National League, and
the American Association, results of daily games, giving
the people of the middle west and the western part of the
state “up to the minute” baseball news and results.
Another exception is the Kansas City market reports on
grain futures, -which is appreciated very much by the farm¬
ers, and also an extensive report on the Kansas City live¬
stock market.
Station KFKB has been selected as a good station by
Mr. Biggerstaff, the Secretary of the Kansas City Life-
stock Exchange, and the farmers of this and surrounding
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
249
territory depend on this station for their live-stock infor¬
mation because with our 5,000 watts power they can get
dependable reports in all kinds of weather within a radius
of 50 to 75 miles of our station.
Another feature which is broadcast weekly, is the broad¬
cast of the contagious diseases of the state in each county
of the state, showing the number of cases of smallpox,
scarlet fever, mumps, measles, whooping cough, diphtheria,
typhoid fever, influenza, infantile paralysis, meningitis,
tuberculosis, pneumonia, and other acute infectious dis¬
eases. This bulletin is furnished us by the U. S. Public
Health Service sent by the County Health office in Junc¬
tion City, Kansas, and we broadcast this warning once a
week to the people of the state, pointing out to them where
the infectious diseases will be most prevalent, and giving
them precautionary information as to how to avoid infec¬
tion and contagion.
Another feature not shown is the weekly broadcast fur¬
nished us by the U. S. Civil Service Commission, giving the
listeners advance information as to the place and date of
all pending examinations for the U. S. Civil officers, these
including every department of the U. S. Civil service, all
foreign field service, with the exact date of examination,
when and where to be held, and the qualifications necessary
for one to submit application to take said examination,
HOWARD WILSON.
and the salary which said position pay?.
527 Another feature is the reports prepared by the
U. S. Department of Commerce for the special bene¬
fit of business men and others who wish to keep informed
as to the world’s economic situation. The substance of
this report is actual business conditions in the IT. S. and
leading foreign countries.
Another feature not shown on the weekly report is the
regular daily broadcast of the National Safety Council,
telling people how to avoid accident, showing the many
ways in which accidents happen. These are broadcast as
radiograms.
Another feature is the daily broadcast of Kansas road
conditions, letting the traveling public knovi what roads
are good and which are bad.
250 Kt’KB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Another broadcast that is worthy of mention is that dur¬
ing the cold weather when the snow is on the ground, co¬
operating with the Kansas Game Warden, we broadcast
information to people about feeding the quail and other
birds and assist in preserving the fauna of this state.
Another feature is our cooperation with the Kansas
Peace officers in the broadcasting of information leading
to the apprehension of criminals; as well as broadcasting
the description of people who have been found dead, lead¬
ing to their identification.
Another feature recently broadcast is the “Poppy Day”
sales for the American Legion.
Another feature broadcast is the report furnished to us
by the II. S. Department of Agriculture, covering the de¬
scription of the soil, its care and preservation, crop rota¬
tion, and the destruction of insects detrimental to the
growth of grain and otlier plants.
All this information is broadcast free of charge, station
KFKB does not receive one penny’s remuneration from
any source whatsoever for the broadcasting of this valu¬
able information to the public.
HOWARD WILSON.
528 Another exception to our programs are the broad¬
cast of certain sponsored programs by National ad¬
vertisers, as follows:
Montgomery Ward & Company, two sponsored periods
daily; these are paid for by Montgomery Ward & Co.
One sponsored period each day by the Boyd Creamery
Company of Creston, Iowa. This sponsored program has
been broadcast over this station daily for the past two
years. This is paid for by the Boyd Creamery Company
of Creston, Iowa.
Another exception is the Maneval Hatcheries of Frank¬
fort, Kansas; having two sponsored periods daily; paid
for by the Maneval Hatcheries of Frankfort, Kans.
The Skelly Oil Company of El Dorado, Kansas, spon¬
sored program once each day; paid by the Skelly Oil Com¬
pany.
Another exception is the Lee Tire Chain Company of
Jefferson City, Missouri, who have a daily sponsored
period, paid for by them.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
251
i
Another exception is the Georgie-Porgie Company of
Council Bluffs, Iowa, with three periods daily, sponsored
and paid for by them.
The Skaggs Store Company of Abilene,; Kansas, one
period weekly, sponsored and paid for by them.
The Ike Walton Hour, thirty minutes weekly, sponsored
and paid for by five different advertisers.
The E. H. Wright & Company, Kansas City, Missouri,
one period daily, sponsored and paid for by them.
The Brooks Company, Ft. Scott, Kansas, one period
daily, sponsored and paid for by them.
The Busch Poultry Farm of Clinton, Missouri; three
periods weekly, sponsored and paid for by them.
The Milligan Monument Company of Abilene, one period
weekly, sponsored and paid for by them.
The Chappell Creamery Company of Manhattan, Kan¬
sas, one period daily; sponsored and paid for by them.
HOWARD H. WILSON.
entertainment
529 Other subjects for broadcast consist of one to two-
minute announcements furnished us| through the
various advertising agencies such as the Bureau of Broad¬
cast, Radio Digest; the Darlow Advertising Agency of
Omaha, Nebr., Battanfield & Ball Advertising Agency, Des
Moines, Iowa; McElhiney Advertising Company, St. Louis,
Mo., The Fred M. Randall Advertising Company of De¬
troit, Michigan; the F. R. Steel Company of Chicago, Illi¬
nois ; and Lumis, Baxter & Davis Advertising Company of
Kansas City, Mo.
Another exception is the nature of each
which is not shown on the program attached.
Fencglio is an accomplished accordionist who rotates
on various times of the dav throughout the week and month
v v. • !
and is used to sponsor some of the advertiser’s program
who are mentioned above. Mr. Fenoglio is considered one
of the leading accordionists of the country; lie is an Italian
and has received favorable comment wherever he has
played, and is much appreciated by the listeners of KFKB,
as evidenced by the applause mail.
The McRee Sisters are a couple of southern girls who
sing and play the old southern songs, old time numbers, as
well as modern ballads.
252 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Roy Faulknor, the so-called “Singing Cowboy” features
the songs of the Klondike region, the California Gold Rush,
the days of ’49; the old western Frontier and cowboy songs.
Mr. Faulknor as well as the McRee sisters are rotated over
various periods of the station time and are used in sponsor¬
ing programs where indicated.
Evans Brown is a former vaudevillian, many years be¬
ing spent on the legitimate stage as an entertainer, play¬
ing the accordian and piano-harp, as well as the piano. He
is an accomplished musician and is used to sponsor pro¬
grams.
The Hawaiians, a group of four entertainers playing the
usual Hawaiian music; these are rotated over the station
on various periods and are used to sponsor programs.
Uncle Bob’s orchestra; this is composed of three to five
musicians, consisting of fiddle, banjo, guitar, piano and
HOWARD H. WILSON.
530 ukelele, playing the old fashined southern songs in
the old fashioned way. Uncle Bob Larkin is a well
known fiddler and has made records for Brunswick and
Okeh. Uncle Bob is very popular and is used in the spon¬
soring of programs and is rotated over the various periods
of broadcast time.
Dutch and his Uke. Dutch is a popular “blues” singer,
accompanying himself on the Uke. Quite a popular enter¬
tainer and has been grouped with Irish as a program
sponsorer.
The Summary of weather and market reports and cur¬
rent news items, is time set apart every morning for the
giving of the latest stock market reports, grain reports
and cream market; these reports are eagerly watched for
from this station and the farmers of this and surrounding
territory depend upon KFKB for them because they can
get them over our station when they can’t get them over
other stations due to bad weather.
The weather reports are furnished by the U. S. Depart¬
ment of Agriculture, sent to us every day by telegram.
Current news items pertaining to current events in every
walk of life in this and other countries are given. This is
sponsored by the station itself.
Steve Love and Arthur Pizinger’s orchestras consisting
of ten musician^, each an artist on his own particular in-
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
253
strument. These orchestras are the sustaining programs
of the broadcasting station and are paid for by the sta¬
tion. Judging from the telegrams and letters and the re¬
quests coming to the station from other Kansas towns,
these orchestras are considered one of the best on the air.
These gentlemen play both the classical, semi-classical, as
well as the popular dance music of the present day.
Sam McRee and his orchestra. Three to five people
playing the old time southern melodies, which are appre¬
ciated by the older people who were accustomed to this
kind of music in their younger days.
Mr. Chris Bath, at the Baldwin Grand; this is one-half
HOWARD H. WILSON.
531 hour, weekly broadcast, Mr. Bath playing on the
Baldwin Grand, sponsored and paid for by the Bald¬
win Company.
Sambo and his Harp. Sambo is a white boy, plays the
harp (the harmonica).
The time devoted to lectures on health consists of three
one-half hour periods each day. These lectures are ob¬
tained from standard text books such as those written by
Dr. Hugh Young, who testified before the Commission; from
collected papers of the Mayo Clinic, and from the standard
medical text books as published by W. B. Saunders and
Company, C. V. Moseby & Company, J. B. Lippincott, F. A.
Davis & Company, and other medical publishing houses, as
well as articles appearing in leading medical journals.
These lectures cover a wide range of subjects dealing with
public health. These are sponsored and paid for by the
Brinkley Hospital.
The Medical Question box has consisted of three half-
hour periods each week day, and are sponsored and paid
for by the Druggists Association.
The nature of the Medical lectures, as well as the Medi¬
cal Question Box, is the distribution of information con¬
cerning the health of the nation, and the simpler methods
of keeping well.
The amount of time devoted to the medical lectures and
medical Question Box has been determined by popular ap¬
proval. In the beginning but one medical lecture was given
a day, soon the public asked for more lectures, and the time
254 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
was increased to two a day, and finally at the urgent re¬
quest of thousands of listeners the time was increased to
three a dav.
*
The Medical Question Box began with one half-hour
period a day, and due to the thousands of requests and pub¬
lic approval it was increased to one hour’s time a day, and
finally to one and one-lialf hour’s time per day.
HOWARD H. WILSON.
532 The difference between the medical lectures and
the Question Box is as follows: In a medical lecture
a certain disease like typhoid fever, pneumonia, influenza,
tuberculosis, diabetes, Bright’s disease, enlargement of
the prostate gland, cancer, rheumatism, insanity, epilepsy,
is dealt with exclusivelv during the medical lecture half-
hour. In the Question Box, short, snappy, terse “to the
point” facts pertaining to the various diseases that may
be brought up in the letters sent in by patients are dis¬
cussed briefly, and simple rules of hygiene, such as the de¬
sirability of plenty of sleep, the drinking of pure water,
fresh air and sunshine, the drinking of pure milk and
cream, the advisability of alimentation, keeping the body
cleaned out and avoiding over-eating, over-work and over¬
sleep, undue exposure; the promulgation of preventing the
spread of contagious and infectious diseases by guarded
isolation, vaccination, etc., are dealt with; and the consult¬
ing with the family physician or a specialist once or twice
a year is advised in order a thorough examination may
be made to determine the meaning of any symptoms you
mav have, and the avoidance of chronic ailments bv earlv
diagnosis and treatment.
Furthermore, in the Medical Question Box, Dr. Brink-
ley, when recognizing such ailments as paralysis following
some disease, especially in children, refers the parents to
some orthopedic specialist; where the symptoms would in¬
dicate the patient is suffering from thyroid disease the
patient is referred to some noted thyroid specialist.
Where the symptoms would indicate cancer the patient is
urged to have an examination by a competent surgeon at
once, and have an operation immediately if the surgeon ad¬
vises it.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
255
The Medical Question Box is probably one of the great¬
est safeguards to the public health that has ever been in¬
augurated by any broadcasting station.
Further affiant saith not.
HOWARD H.
WILSON.
533 State of Kansas,
County of Geary, ss:
Be it remembered that on this 29th day of May, 1930,
before me, the undersigned, a Notary Public in and for
the County and State aforesaid, personally appeared
Howard H. Wilson who is to — personally: known, and
who being by me first duly sworn, stated that he was able
to read and write the English language, that he had read
the foregoing affidavit consisting of 9 pages, and that the
matters and facts therein stated were true; and he there¬
upon affixed his name to the bottom of each page of said
affidavit in my presence.
[Seal of L. McChesney, Notary Public, Geary County,
Ivans.]
L. McCHESNEY,
Notary Public in and for Geary County,
State of Kansas.
i
My Commission Expires Jan. 6,1932.
Commission expires-,-. j
534 Program for Station KFKB, Beginning April 21,
1930.
5:00
to
5:30 A.M.
5:50
to
6:00 AM.
6:00
to
6:30 A.M.
6:30
to
7:00 A.M.
7:00
to
7:15 A.M.
7:15
to
7:30 A.M.
7:30
to
8:00 A.M.
8:00
to
8:30 A.M.
8:30
to
8:45 A.M.
8:45
to
9:00 A.M.
Lecture on health.
Uncle Bob Larkan and his Music
Makers. I
Lecture on health and sanitation.
Irish and his Uke.
Hawaiian Music.
McRee Sisters.
Fenoglio and his Accordian.
Prof. Gaston Bert’s language period.
Dutch and his Uke. I
Uncle Bob and Sam McRee.
256
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
9:00 to 9:15 A.M.
9:15 to 9:30 A.M.
9' :30 to 10:00 A.M.
10:00 to 10:30 A.M.
10:30 to 10:45 A.M.
10:45 to 11:00 A.M.
11:00 to 12:30 A.M.
12:30 to 1:00 P.M.
1:00 to 1:15 P.M.
1:15 to 1:30 P.M.
1:30 to 1:45 P.M.
1:45 to 2:00 P.M.
2:00 to 2:15 P.M.
2:15 to 2:30 P.M.
2:30 to 3:00 P.M.
3:00 to 3:15 P.M.
535
3:15 to 3:30 P.M.
3:30 to 3:45 P.M.
2:45 to 4:00 P.M.
4:00 to 4:15 P.M.
4:15 to 4:30 P.M.
4:30 to 4:45 P.M.
4:45 to 5:00 P.M.
5:00 to 5:15 P.M.
5:15 to 5:30 P.M.
5:30 to 5:45 P.M.
5:45 to 6:00 P.M.
6:00 to 6:30 P.M.
6:30 to 8:00 P.M.
8:00 to 8:30 P.M.
Sign off 8:30 P.M.
Market reports, weather report, cur¬
rent news items, etc.
Uncle Bob Larkan and his Merry
Makers.
Medical Question Box.
Irish and Dutch accompanied by
Evans Brown.
Bov Faulkner.
•/
Fenoglio and his Accordian.
Steve Love and Arthur Pizinger’s
orchestras alternating.
Medical Question Box.
Uncle Bob and Sam McBee.
Irish and his Uke.
Albert Fenoglio and his Accordian.
Hawaiian Music.
Uncle Bob Larkan and his Music
Makers.
Albert Fenoglio and his accordian.
Medical Question Box.
Evans Brown and his accordian.
Rov Faulkner.
*
Uncle Bob and Sam McRee.
Irish and his Uke.
Uncle Bob Larkan and his Music
Makers.
Hawaiian Music.
McRee Sisters.
Evans Brown and his Harp.
McRee Sisters.
Hawaiian Music.
Albert Fenoglio and his Accordian.
Tell Me a Story Lady.
Steve Love’s Orchestra playing popu¬
lar program.
Arthur Pizinger’s Orchestra playing
in concert numbers.
Health Hints.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
257
536 Program for Station KFKB, Sunday, February 2,
1930.
8:00
to
9:00
12:
to
2:00
2:00
to
2:30
2:30
to
2:45
2:45
to
3:00
3:00
to
3:15
3:15
to
3:30
3:30
to
3:45
3:45
to
4:00
4:00
to
4:30
4:30
to
4:45
4:45
to
5:00
5:00
to
7:00
7:00
to
7:25
7:25
Sunrise Sermon by Dr. C. E. Draper.
Steve Love and Arthur Pizinger’s orches¬
tras alternating, with breaks be¬
tween.
Bible Talk by Dr. J. R. Brinkley.
Albert Fenoglio, piano accordian.
Irish and his Uke.
Uncle Sam McRee and His Merrymakers.
Dutch and Irish, Harmony Boys.
Hawaiians. j
McRee Sisters. i
Sunday Afternoon Sermon Lecture by Dr.
Draper.
Evans Brown playing alternately on the
piano accordian and the Italian Harp.
McRee Sisters.
Steve Love and his Dance Orchestra and
Arthur Pizinger and his Concert Orches¬
tra alternating. Breaks to! be arranged
bv Steve.
*
Discussion of Masonry by Dr. J. R. Brink-
ley.
Sign off.
537 Affidavit.
i
State of Kansas,
County of Geary, ss:
Howard H. Wilson, of lawful age, being first duly sworn
on his oath deposes and states as follows:
My name is Howard H. Wilson, I reside in Milford,
Geary County, Kansas, and at the time of the making of
this affidavit (May 29, 1930) I am the secretary and
treasurer and manager of KFKB Broadcasting Associ¬
ation of Milford, Geary County, Kansas, and I am familiar
with all the books of account of said corporation and its
business affairs.
17—5240a
258 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Affiant further states as secretary and treasurer of said
corporation he has by authority from the Board of Direc¬
tors of said corporation made this affidavit for the said
corporation and on its behalf.
Affiant further states that by order of the Board of
Directors of the corporation he has ordered made a finan¬
cial statement of the receipts and disbursements of said
corporation from February 1, 1930, to May 1, 1930, and
that a true and correct copy of said receipts and disburse¬
ments is attached to this affidavit in the form of sheets of
ledger paper written on both sides and this affiant to fur¬
ther identify same has signed his name across the face and
in the middle of these sheets. Affiant further states that
the items above referred to are an exact reproduction of
the books of the KFKB Broadcasting Association, Incor¬
porated that are now in his possession as secretary and
treasurer of said corporation, of Milford, Geary County,
Kansas.
And affiant saith further not.
HOWARD H. WILSON,
Secretary-Treasurer of KFKB Broad¬
casting Ass’n, Inc., of Milford, Geary County, Kansas.
State of Kansas,
County of Geary, ss:
Be it remembered on this 29th day of May, 1930, before
me the undersigned Notary Public in and for the County
and State aforesaid, personally appeared Howard H. Wil¬
son, Secretary-Treasurer of KFKB Broadcasting
538 Association, Inc. of Milford, Geary County, Kan¬
sas, to me personally known and who by me being
first duly sworn on his oath! stated that he was able to
read and write the English language and that the matters
and facts stated and set forth in the foregoing affidavit
were true and that he made said affidavit as secretary and
treasurer of the KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc.,
and on behalf of said corporation and by authority of the
Board of Directors of said corporation and he, the said
Cash Disbursement
TO WHOM PAID
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KFKB BROADCASTING
Ko« 5240
KPKB Broadcasting Association* Inc*,
vs. Appellant
Federal Radio Commission
EXPLANATION
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RADIO
ADVERTISING I SALARIES
Totals or Amounts Carried Forward.
J
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Cash Disbursemen
KFKB BROADCASTING
AMOUNT
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to. 5840
KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc*,
ts ♦ Appellant
Federal Radio Commission
RADIO
SALASICS
USHT
WATSS
Ho. 5240
KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc.,
vs. Appellant,
Federal Radio Commission
Cash Disbursement!
CHECK
NO.
TO WHOM PAID
' ^ b ! /( S // Amount# brought Forward.
137 || C t
/3f \Js*> a,
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AMOUNT
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NO.
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TO WHOM PAID
AMOUNTS 1NOUOHT FOWWAW.
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RADIO
( ash Disbursement,
M KB BKU MB I >li
KTKB Broadaaating Association, Inc.,
va. Appellant,
Federal Radio Commission
Ho. 5240
KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc.,
T * • Appellant
Fed eral Radio Comalaslon__
RADIO
Ho. 5240
KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc.,
Ho. 5240
KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc.,
Appellant.
Federal Radio Commission _
FOAM A-2C10-2S
N. B: Void all checks
60 days outstanding
Ho. 5240
KFKB Broadcasting Association. Inc.,
vs. Appellant,
Federal Radio Commission ^ „
Cash Receipts
Amounts Brought Forward
£~~JU.*4SV-moft
1,
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>7 dj • - C. <?. >3~/u^ to 7S. i
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AP- ^2-^y-
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KFKB Broadcasting Association Incorporated Month
Amount
EXPLANATION
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Totals or Amounts Carried Forward
Ho. 5240
KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc.,
▼s. Appellant,
p.d.r.1 E.01O commission Reconcilment with Bank_- 4 ^; , _19_£^
Outstanding Check List
NO. 5240
KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc.,
vs. Appellant,
Federal Radio Commission
Cash Receipts
KFKB Broadcasting Association Incorporated Month
19 j 2 q. Page.
RECEIVED FROM
Amounts Broozht Forward
jj - ! * /tf. C
Amount
EXPLANATION
U\ JL ~~
iM
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> 7 -
0 / 7 . 77 j| dd*.
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Carried Forward
RADIO
Income ii
_ _ CLASSIFICATION _
^ :| Book Sde* j ££*. j M.T.B. || J.
jj Misc.
. Refunds
:] Rebates
Deposited
Uoo^o
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551
KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc
▼a. Appe
Federal Radio Commission
Balance Per Check Stub.*.
Add—Total_
Reconc
AM
Am
.Deposit
Check*
Lest—Total
KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc.,
vs. Appellant,
Federal Radio Commission
Cash Receipts
KFKB Broadcasting Association Incorporated Month of
, 19-^f Page
f4
Property
3> *2* e \7<*
733 f/i
.
^^2 gn
1 9 4> &
/ 7 3S
//3S- \s4
Reconcilment with Bank —
19
No. 5240
KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc*,
vs. Appellant,
Federal Radio Commission
Balance Per Check Stub.
Add—Total
Deposits
Less—Total
Checks
Balance Per Check Stub___19
Add—Outstanding Checks
Balance Per Bank_19
rOftM A-2C <c z«
Outstanding Check List
N B: Void all checks
60 days outstanding
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
259
Howard H. Wilson, thereupon affixed his nanie to the affi¬
davit in my presence the day and year first above written.
[Seal of L. McChesney, Notary Public, Geary County,
Kans.]
L. McCHESNEY,
Notary Public in and for Geary County,
State
of Kansas.
My commission expires-, —
My commission expires Jan. 6, 1932.
(Here follows photolithographed pages 539 to 545;
548 to 554, inclusive.)
555
Docket No. —
App. Exhibit 13.
Hart, Dice & Carlson, Official Reporters.
May 20,1930. I
i
Introduced at Hearing Before Federal Radio Commission.
Statement and Affidavit of Employee of Radio Station
KFKB, Milford, Kansas.
State of Kansas,
County of Geary, ss:
My name is Calvin J. Miller and I live in the City of Mil¬
ford, County of Geary, State of Kansas. I am 23 years of
age. I am married, and have no children. My occupation
since June 30,1929, has been that of radio operator of Sta¬
tion KFKB, Milford, Kansas. My fellow operator who al¬
ternates with me on this station is Earl E. Eggers. My na¬
tionality is American. My salary is $35.00 per week. I
have no other employment.
This station begins broadcasting at 5:00 A. M., and
broadcasts continuously until sunset, California Time. I
am employed at the station for one-half of the broadcasting
period each day and have been since the time of my em¬
ployment with this station. Among the various features
that are broadcast on these radio programs are orchestra
260
KKKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
numbers, including dance and classical; singing numbers
•and other various musical entertainment; vaudeville dia¬
logues ; II. S. weather and market reports and agricultural
information; Tell-Me-A-Story Lady; religious sermons by
Dr. Draper; lectures in different languages by Professor
Bert; and Masonic, religious and medical lectures by Dr.
John R. Brinkley.
It is my duty and the duty of my fellow radio-operator,
Earl L. Eggers, to listen to everything that is broadcast
over this station. We “monitor” the programs, as it is
called. I have listened to all of the talks that Dr. John R.
Brinkley, as one of the lecturers and entertainers of this
station, has given. During all of the many lectures and
talks he has given, I have never heard him, or any other lec¬
turer or entertainer over this station, use any vile, profane,
or vulgar language, or discuss pregnancy or sex questions,
or use any words, terms or phrases that would be unbecom¬
ing to public decency or morals or objectionable to anyone,
nor have I heard Dr. John R. Brinkley, or any other person
or persons, make any fraudulent, unreliable or misleading
statements over this station.
Beginning on the first day of February, 1930, and contin¬
uously until and including the signing of this affidavit, Dr.
CALVIN J. MILLER.
556 J. R. Brinkley has personally broadcasted over sta¬
tion I\FKB. on the following hours and times only:
This time having been set aside for his personal use, if
he chooses to use it he does so, if he does not. the program
director substitutes other programs for this time.
On week days Dr. J. R. Brinkley broadcasts the so-called
Medical Question Box from 9:30 to 10:00 A. M.; 12:30 to
1:00 P. M. and from 2:30 to 3:00 P. M. At no other time
during the week days has he personally appeared other
than the above mentioned hours. On Sundav he lectures
from 2:00 to 2:30 P. M.; and Sunday evenings he lectures
according to sunset time in California, which time varies
each month, his lectures being the last half-hour of the Sun¬
day program, as broadcast by station KFKB.
On week days Dr. Brinkley, during the time mentioned
herein, has never broadcast early in the morning or after
3 o’clock in the afternoon. He talks on various subjects
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION. 261
such as his trip around the world, discussing the countries
lie has visited, religious subjects and Masonic subjects.
He interposes the Medical question box with advice to his
listeners to practice prevention of disease rather than the
curing of same; he advises mothers to have their children
vaccinated against smallpox, diphtheria and typhoid; he ad¬
vises people to consult their family physicians or surgeons,
and advises everybody to have a thorough physical exami¬
nation once or twice every year.
In my occupation, as above stated, I am in close touch
with and keep posted on other programs and numbers
broadcast by other radio stations in the United States, and
I can truthfully say that the programs and entertainments
as broadcast by Station KFKB compare very favorably
with other stations broadcasting over the air. The pro¬
grams of Station KFKB are of a high-class, moral and up¬
lifting nature.
CALVIN J. MILLER,
I Affiant.
State of Kansas,
County of Geary, ss:
Be it remembered that on this 14th day of May, 1930,
before me, the undersigned, a Notary Public in and for the
County and State aforesaid, personally appeared Calvin J.
Miller, who is to me personally known, and who being by me
first duly sworn, stated that he was able to read and write
the English language, that lie had read the foregoing affi¬
davit, and that the matters and facts thereip stated were
true, and he thereupon affixed his name to said affidavit in
my presence.
I
[Seal of L. McChesney. Notary Public, Geary County,
Kans.]
L. McCHESNEY,
Notary Public in and for Geary County.
My commission expires Jan. 6, 1932.
262
Kr KB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
557 Docket No. 835.
App. Exhibit 14.
Hart, Dice & Carlson, Official Reporters.
May 20, 1930.
Introduced at Hearing: Before Federal Radio Commission.
Statement and Affidavit of Employee of Radio Station
KFKB. Milford, Ka.
State of Kansas,
County of Geary, .<?.<?;
My name is Earl L. Esrgers. and I live in the City of Mil¬
ford, Countv of Gearv, State of Kansas. T am 22 vears of
asre. I am married and have no children. My occupation
since September 1, 1929, has been that of radio operator of
Station KFKB, Milford, Kansas. My fellow operator, who
alternates with me on this station is Calvin J. Miller. My
nationality is American. My salary is $40.00 per week. I
have no other employment.
This station begins broadcasting at 5:00 A.M., and
broadcasts continuously until sunset, California Time. I
am employed at the station for one-half of the broadcasting
period each day and have been since the time of my employ¬
ment with this station. Among the various features that
are broadcast on these radio programs are orchestra num¬
bers. including dance and classical; singing numbers and
other various musical entertainment: vaudeville dialogues;
F. S. weather and market reports and agricultural infor¬
mation: Tell-Me-A-Story Lady; religious sermons by Dr.
Draper: lectures in different languages by Professor Bert;
and Masonic, religious and medical lectures by Dr. John R.
Brinklev.
*
It is my duly and the dutv of my fellow radio-o'oerator,
Calvin J. Miller, to listen to everything that is broadcast
over this station. We “monitor” the programs, as it is
called. I have listened to all the talks that Dr. John R.
Brinkley, as one of the lecturers and entertainers of this
station, has given. During all of the many lectures and
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
263
i
talks he has given, I have never heard him, or any other
lecturer or entertainer over this station, use any vile, pro¬
fane, or vulgar language, or discuss pregnancy or sex ques¬
tions, or use any words, terms or phrases that would be un¬
becoming to public decency, or morals, or objectionable to
anyone, nor have I heard Dr. John R. Brinkley, or any
other person or persons make any fraudulent, unreliable
or misleading statements over this station.
Beginning on the first day of February, 1930, and con¬
tinuously until and including the signing of this affidavit,
Dr. J. R. Brinkley has personally broadcasted over station
KFKB, on the following hours and times only:
EARL EGGERS.
558 This time having been set aside for his personal
use, if he chooses to use it he does so, if he does not,
the program director substitutes other programs for this
time.
On week days Dr. J. R. Brinkley broadcasts the so-called
Medical Question Box from 9:30 to 10:00 A. M.; 12:30 to
1:00 P. M. and from 2:30 to 3:00 P. M. At no other time
during the week days has he personally appeared other
than the above mentioned hours. On Sunday he lectures
from 2:00 to 2:30 P. M.; and Sunday evenings he lectures
according to sunset time in California, which time varies
each month, his lectures being the last half-hour of the Sun¬
day program, as broadcast by station KFKB.
On week days Dr. Brinkley, during the time mentioned
herein, has never broadcast early in the morning or after 3
o’clock in the afternoon. He talks on various subjects such
as his trip around the world, discussing the countries he
has visited, religious subjects and Masonic subjects.
He interposes the Medical Question Box with advice to
his listeners to practice prevention of disease rather than
the curing of same; he advises mothers to have their chil¬
dren vaccinated against smallpox, diphtheria and typhoid;
he advises people to consult their family physicians or sur¬
geons, and advises everybody to have a thorough physical
examination once or twice every year.
In my occupation, as above stated, I am in close touch
with and keep posted on other programs and numbers
broadcast by other radio stations in the United States, and
264
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
I can truthfully say that the programs and entertainments
as broadcast by Station KFKB compare very favorably
with other stations broadcasting over the air. The pro¬
grams of Station KFKB are of a high-class, moral and up¬
lifting nature.
EARL EGGERS,
Affiant.
State of Kansas,
County of Geary , ss:
Be it remembered that on this 14th day of May, 1930,
before me, the undersigned, a Notary Public in and for the
County and State aforesaid, personally appeared Earl L.
Eggers, who is to me personally known, and who being by
me first dulv sworn, stated that he was able to read and
write the English language, that he had read the foregoing
affidavit, and that the matters and facts therein states
were true, and he thereupon affixed his name to said affi¬
davit in my presence.
[Seal of L. MeChesnev, Notary Public, Geary County,
Kans.]
L. McCHESNEY,
Notary Public in and for Geary County .
State of Kansas.
My commission expires Jan. 6, 1932.
559 Docket No. 835.
App. Exhibit 35.
Hart, Dice &: Carlson, Official Reporters.
May 20,1930.
Introduced at Hearing Before Federal Radio Commission.
Marion, Kansas.
Original mailed to Radio Commission, Washington, D. C.,
on March 24, 1930.
Affidavit.
State of Kansas,
County of Marion, ss:
Mrs. J. K. Warkentin, R. N., being first duly affirmed
deposes and says that she is a resident of Marion, Kansas;
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
265
and a Graduate Nurse, being duly licensed to practice in
the states of Missouri and Kansas, and has a fair knowl¬
edge of medicines and drugs and is also familiar with the
vocabulary used by doctors and physcians. She further
states that she is listening in on Radio Station K. F. K. B.
Milford, Kansas daily and has never heard Dr. J. R. Brink-
ley or any body else, when a medical lecture was given, use
any obscene language since the radio was installed in her
home on or about Dec. 15, 1929. Said affiant further says
that the drugs and medicines prescribed by Djr. J. R. Brink-
ley have been used by herself and her husband and have
the effect and results as claimed by said Dr. Brinkley.
Further affiant saith not.
Mrs. J. K. WARKENTIN, R. N.
Subscribed and affirmed to before me this 24th day of
March, 1930.
[Seal of J. K. Warkentin, Notary Public, Marion
County, Kansas.] !
J. K. WARKENTIN,
Notary Public.
My commission expires July 6, 1932.
560 Docket No. 835. |
i
App. Exhibit 36.
Hart, Dice & Carlson, Official Reporters.
May 20,1930.
Introduced at Hearing Before Federal Radio Commission.
State of Missouri,
County of Jackson, ss:
Mrs. E. N. Ewin, of lawful age, being first duly sworn on
her oath deposes and states as follows:
My name is Mrs. E. N. Ewin, I am 50 yeafs of age, mar¬
ried, and have lived in Kansas City, Jackson County, Mis¬
souri for the past 8 years. !
We own a Philco radio set, and are regular listeners on
Radio Station KFKB, and have been for the last. 8 months.
266
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Of the various programs coming from this station I am
particularly interested in the Medical Question Box con¬
ducted bv Dr. John R. Brinkley, which I have listened to
nearly every day during the past 8 months.
I absolutely have not heard any language of Dr. Brink¬
ley’s that is offensive, obscene, or obnoxious.
I have used medicine prescribed by Dr. Brinkley in his
Question Box talks, and have had wonderful results and am
thoroughlv satisfied.
T have the definate opinion that his advice is useful, up¬
lifting and given for the enlightenment of afflicted people.
I think that station KFKB should have 24 hours service
and more power. I am a trained nurse with years of ex¬
perience, know the value of medicine; and for Dr. John R.
Brinkley we have only words of praise for the magnifieient
results he has brought about in our family through his pre¬
scriptions.
Mrs. E. X. EWTN.
State of Missouri,
County of Jackson , ss:
Be it remembered on this 19th day of April, 1930, before
me the undersigned, a Notary Public within and for the
County and State aforesaid, personally appeared Mrs. E.
N. Ewin, who is personally known to me, and who by me
being first duly sworn stated that she was able to read and
write the English language and that she had read the fore¬
going affidavit and that the matters and facts therein set
forth were true, and she thereupon affixed her name to said
affidavit in my presence.
My Commission Expires Nov. 22, 1931.
[Seal of Harriet E. De Witt, Notary Public, Jackson
County, Mo.]
HARRIET E. DeWITT,
Notary Public Within and for
Jackson County, Missouri.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
267
561 Docket No. 835.
Exhibit 39.
Hart, Dice & Carlson, Official Reporters.
May 20,1930.
Introduced at Hearing Before Federal Radio Commission.
City of Washington,
District of Columbia, ss:
i
Percy S. Walker, of Topeka, Kansas, being duly sworn,
deposes and says:
That he is a resident of the state of Kansas and has re¬
sided in that state during his entire lifetime; that he is a
registered pharmacist, member of the Kansas State Board
of Pharmacy under appointment of Governor Paulen dated
March 30, 1928; that he is a member of the Kansas State
Pharmaceutical Association and of the National Pharma¬
ceutical Association; that he is a graduate of Washburn
College of Topeka, Kansas, with the degree of A. B., and is
one of the delegates from the state of Kansas to the United
States Pharmacopoeial convention, May 13-14, 1930, Wash¬
ington, D. C., which convention among other things is en¬
gaging in revising the United States pharmacopoeia; that
he has been a registered pharmacist and druggist for over
twenty-five years, during which time he has owned and
operated a drug store in Topeka, Kansas;
That he has been a listener of the programs of Station
KFKB of Milford, Kansas, more than six months and has
not heard anything of an indecent, obscene, or false nature
broadcast therefrom; that in February of 1930 Dr. J. R.
Brinkley was broadcasting a question box over this station
in which he would give prescriptions for the relief of cer¬
tain ailments and that Dr. Brinkley stated that he thought
lie would have to organize the druggists because certain
druggists were not filling these prescriptions as given over
the radio, and that for the protection of the public he
thought it would be desirable to have an organization lim¬
ited to druggists of reputation, integrity, and standing;
that he, together with other druggists, wrote to Dr. Brink-
268 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
ley saying that he thought such an organization would be
desirable; that prior to that time affiant states on informa¬
tion and belief that the doctors were filling their own pre¬
scriptions from their own shelves rather than sending pa¬
tients to the druggists who were in the business of filling
prescriptions and selling drugs; that affiant knows of his
own knowledge and experience that the prescriptions
562 being broadcast bv Dr. Brinklev were beneficial and
helpful to the public because he had filled many of
them at the request of people living in Topeka, Kansas;
That about the middle of March, 1930, the druggists of
the states of Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Iowa, and Okla¬
homa, met in Kansas City, Missouri, together with Dr.
Brinkley and there perfected a state organization for each
state and a national organization, which organization con¬
sisted of druggists of standing and excellent reputation in
the respective states; that the purpose of this organization
was to make certain that the prescriptions broadcast by
Dr. Brinkley would be filled accurately and at reasonable
prices; that the method of procedure was that the state
organizations were to pass upon and either approve or dis¬
approve all druggists desiring to become members of the
association—if approved, they were to be provided with the
prescriptions in writing by Dr. Brinkley, each prescription
to bear a number, Dr. Brinkley to describe the symptoms
over the radio and recommend a prescription of a certain
number, the patient to go to a drug store, a member of the
association, and ask for the prescription of a certain num¬
ber: that the druggists were expected to make certain that
the patient had the right number for the ailment com¬
plained of, and the druggists were to pay $5.00 a year to
the association and to receive the services of Dr. Brinkley
in recommending these prescriptions and in furnishing the
prescription free, with the exception of prescription #50
for constipation and the liver, for which Dr. Brinkley was
to receive $1.00 from the druggist, winch represents the sole
and only remuneration paid Dr. Brinkley for his services in
furnishing the prescriptions and recommending them to the
public; that the number of different prescriptions are in
excess of thirty; that the number of druggists in the asso¬
ciation are in excess of five hundred and the number is in¬
creasing :
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
269
That the affiant is informed and believes that these pre¬
scriptions are very beneficial, and knows that they are filled
with the very highest quality of medicine obtainable,
and also that people are recommending them to their
friends;
563 That prior to the meeting in Kansas City, affiant
had never met Dr. J. R. Brinkley and that affiant was
elected President of the state association and of the na¬
tional association by his fellow druggists at the meeting
without solici-tion and without consultation or suggestion
with Dr. Brinkley; that the duty of a druggist to society is
to fill physician’s prescriptions, home formulas, and to
supply the public with medicines of the highest quality, accu¬
rately compounded, and that affiant is certain that in filling
the prescriptions recommended and broadcast by Dr. J. R.
Brinklev of Station KFKB, he is doing his full duty.
PERCY S. WALKER.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 12th dav of May,
A. D. 1930. |
[Seal of Lillian I\. Lindquist, Notary Public, District
of Columbia.]
My Comm. Expires Nov. 17, 1933.
LILLIAN K. LINDQUIST,
Notary Public.
564 Affidavit.
State of Kansas,
County of Riley, ss:
W. H. Emerson, of lawful age, being first duly sworn
on his oath deposes and states as follows :j
My name is W. H. Emerson, I am in a retail lumber
business in Manhattan, Riley County, Kansas; I have re¬
sided in this community for the past four years; I am one
of the directors of the KFKB Broadcasting Association,
Incorporated, of Milford, Kansas, and have been such
since October, 1929.
Radio Station KFKB broadcasts from 5; o’clock in the
morning until sunset, California time, having no evening
time, and on account of this fact, the officers and directors
270 KKKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
of KFKB have endeavored to place before the listeners of
the station high class programs in order to secure and hold
their interest, employing exceptionally good talent and
broadcasting some very fine programs. This station does
not use chain programs, nor does it use records. Listeners
of this station, through their fan mail have stated that
programs of this class and order would not be acceptable
or interesting, and for that reason this type of program
is not used by Station KFKB.
KFKB is a member of the National Association of
Broadcasters, and the card that is attached to this affi¬
davit and made a part of this affidavit more fully sets out
the prices that are charged by said association for broad¬
casting, and these are the prices that are charged bv sta¬
tion KFKB.
Since affiant has been a member of the Board of Direc¬
tors of said Association, it has always been the policy of
the officers and directors of this station to run KFKB as
an open station; all religious and fraternal organizations
have been welcome and they may have the privilege of
using the station whenever requested.
All medical associations are welcome and any legitimate
advertisers would be welcome to use the station and pay
the charge for broadcasting. f
Affiant further states that the officers and direc-
565 tors would welcome the broadcast of any interesting
medical lecture from any high class medical institu¬
tion if they would care to use the station for that purpose,
and at the time of the making of this affidavit this affiant,
has personal knowledge that the station is broadcasting
United States health reports, state health reports, United
States Weather reports and crop conditions, etc., and as
stated before, it being the general policy of the officers and
directors to make station KFKB an interesting station so
that people would be glad to listen to is.
The station not having any evening time to broadcast
has had trouble in getting high class advertisers, but for
the past few months has had some very good customers
and is continuing to obtain advertisers of a high order.
Affiant further states that among the many advertisers
who use station KFKB to broadcast is the Brinkley Hospi¬
tal. Affiant further states that Dr. Brinkley at the time
Ho. 6240
KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc.,
vs. Appellant
Federal Radio Cornelssion
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272 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
j
that community for the past 27 years; at the present time
I am the President of the Farmers Bank of Mirabile, Mis¬
souri ; I am married, the father of two children, both of
whom are married.
My wife and I have a radio in our home at Mirabile,
Missouri, and daily since the early fall of 1929 I have been
a listener to the Medical Question Box and lectures given
by Dr. J. R. Brinkley over station KFKB at Milford, Kan¬
sas.
In the neighborhood in which I live Dr. Brinkley’s Ques¬
tion box has aroused quite an interest among the people
and I personally know that through this medium Dr. Brink-
ley is helping and has helped a large number of people in
their health problems, and that Dr. Brinkley has been en¬
couraging his listeners to give more attention to their
health and diet and manner of living, and on numerous
occasions he has instructed listeners to consult physicians
regularly to find out the condition of their health.
The doctor’s method in discussing health problems is en¬
tertaining, unique, and holds the attention of his listeners,
and affiant has not found his lectures cut and dried, but
they are variable, and very agreeable to listen to. The
Question Box is in the nature of an interesting, entertain¬
ing and informative talks by which the listener is imme¬
diately attracted and his attention and interest held, and
your affiant understands that the manner in which the
Question Box is conducted is to give those to ask questions
in good faith, medical advice of a general nature* such as
J. L. CLARK.
I
568 to have a thorough physical examination once or
twice a year; and that if people formed the habit
of having an examination made, regularly, the doctor in
this manner would be able to find from their sympto ms
if the patient was afflicted with any disease, and in that
way many chronic diseases could be averted, such as tuber¬
culosis, cancer, diabetes, Bright’s disease; and. that it
would be very much better for the people to stop the dis¬
eases in their inception rather than to wait until they were
bedfast or nearly so before seeking competent medical
advice.
Affiant further states that he has heard Dr. Brinkley in
his Medical Question Box advise mothers to confer with
KFKB Broadcasting Association, Tnc»,
ts • Appellant
Federal Radio Commission
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
271
of the making of this affidavit is conducting a Medical ques¬
tion box; that when Dr. Brinkley started this question box
the time used was one-half hour per day; public interest
became so great that the time was increased to one hour
per day, and was later increased to one and one-half hours
daily, and this is the time he is now using jn the discus¬
sion of his Medical Question Box.
It has been the policy of the directors and management
of station KFKB to increase or reduce thisi time as pub¬
lic interest would demand; and it has also been the policy
of the directors of this association, insofar as possible, to
comply with the requests of its listeners at all times.
W. H. EMERSON,
Affiant.
566 State of Kansas,
County of Riley, ss:
Be it remembered that on this 29th day of May, 1930,
before me, the undersigned, a Notary Public in and for
the County and State aforesaid, personally appeared W.
H. Emerson, who is to me personally known, and who being
by me first duly sworn, stated that he was able to read
and write the English language, that he had read the fore¬
going affidavit, and that the matters and facts therein
stated were true, and he thereupon affixed his name to sai' 3 -
affidavit in my presence.
i
[Seal of Ray P. Martin, Notary Public, Riley County,
Kans.l
RAY P. MARTIN,
Notary Public in and f or Riley
' County, State of Kansas.
My commission expires April 5, 1933.
(Here follows rate card, side folios 566a and 566b.)
567 Affidavit.
State of Kansas,
County of Geary, ss:
J. L. Clark, of lawful age, being first duly sworn on his
oath deposes and says:
My name is J. L. Clark; I am 65 years of age and reside
and 566b.)
-viy h&ihg is J. Oicirk} 1 3.m bo yc&rs of Slid rGsid.6
at Mirabile, Caldwell County, Missouri; I have resided in
272 KT-'KB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
that community for the past 27 years; at the present time
I am the President of the Farmers Bank of Mirabile, Mis¬
souri; I am married, the father of two children, both of
whom are married.
My wife and I have a radio in our home at Mirabile,
Missouri, and daily since the early fall of 1929 I have been
a listener to the Medical Question Box and lectures given
by Dr. J. R. Brinkley over station KFKB at Milford, Kan¬
sas.
In the neighborhood in which I live Dr. Brinkley’s Ques¬
tion box has aroused quite an interest among the people
and I personally know that through this medium Dr. Brink-
ley is helping and has helped a large number of people in
their health problems, and that Dr. Brinkley has been en¬
couraging his listeners to give more attention to their
health and diet and manner of living, and on numerous
occasions he has instructed listeners to consult physicians
regularlv to find out the condition of their health.
The doctor’s method in discussing health problems is en¬
tertaining, unique, and holds the attention of his listeners,
and affiant has not found his lectures cut and dried, but
they are variable, and very agreeable to listen to. The
Question Box is in the nature of an interesting, entertain¬
ing and informative talks by which the listener is imme¬
diately attracted and his attention and interest held, and
your affiant understands that the manner in which the
Question Box is conducted is to give those to ask questions
in good faith, medical advice of a general nature, such as
J. L. CLARK.
568 to have a thorough physical examination once or
twice a year; and that if people formed the habit
of having an examination made, regularly, the doctor in
this manner would be able to find from their symptoms
if the patient was afflicted with any disease, and in that
way many chronic diseases could be averted, such as tuber¬
culosis, cancer, diabetes, Bright’s disease; and that it
would be very much better for the people to stop the dis¬
eases in their inception rather than to wait until they were
bedfast or nearly so before seeking competent medical
advice.
Affiant further states that he has heard Dr. Brinkley in
his Medical Question Box advise mothers to confer with
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
273
their health officer, have their children vaccinated against
small pox, typhoid, and diphtheria; and he has also heard
the doctor advise his listeners to consult dentists; be care¬
ful about their diet; to be sure the water they drink was
pure; and to use milk and cream as a wholesome food;
and the benefit of plenty of fresh air and sunshine; that
there was great danger in many minor symptoms, and the
great seriousness in the neglect of the same; and the im¬
portance of rest.
Affiant further stated he has heard Dr. Brinkley state
many times that preventing disease is much safer than try¬
ing to treat it; and that the curing of many chronic ail¬
ments, in the majority of cases, is a fallacy, resulting in
much suffering, expense and loss of time; that the proper
thing to do was to treat the disease before it got a good
start.
Your affiant further states that the many times he has
heard Dr. Brinkley over the radio and has heard him pre¬
scribe medicine for his listeners, he has never heard Dr.
Brinkley directly or indirectly intimate that the medicines
recommended would cure any disease or replace the per¬
sonal services of a physician, but that the medicines were
prescribed merely as a help to remedy the condition of the
person who had written in for help.
J. L. CLARK.
569 Affiant further states he believes that the impor¬
tant thing in the question box, from his own per¬
sonal observation and talking with many people is that
the question box arouses interest in public health and edu¬
cates the general public in health, and in this manner Dr.
Brinkley is reaching thousands of people who would other¬
wise not be reached by the publications of our Govern¬
ment, health societies and authorities.
From affiant’s observation and talking with many people
about the Question Box he has found that the question box
has a wide human interest appeal; it is interesting, enter¬
taining, helpful and educational to the public. It becomes
an object of curiosity in that it is unique and unusual - it
not only arouses public interest but holds it.
18—5240a
274 Kl'KB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Your affiant knows that- Dr. Brinkley in the past has
given advice to people located in the country or small
towns in the neighborhood where affiant lives, and to these
people in many cases physicians were unavailable, and it
has been a great help to this class of people, especially
among the farming people, and affiant feels that the silenc¬
ing of KFKB would be a great calamity to the people liv¬
ing in outlying districts throughout the middle west who
are dependent upon this station not only for their enter¬
tainment but for their education in health problems.
J. L. CLARK.
State of Kansas,
County of Geary, ss:
Be it remembered that on this 28 day of May, 1930, be¬
fore me, the undersigned, a Notary Public in and for the
County and State aforesaid, personally appeared J. L.
Clark, who is to me personally known, and who being by
me first duly sworn stated he was able to read and write
the English language, that he had read the foregoing affi¬
davit, and that the matters and facts therein stated were
true; and he thereupon affixed his name to said affidavit
in my presence.
[Seal of L. McChesney, Notary Public, Geary County,
Kans.]
L. McCHESNEY,
Notary Public in and for Geary County,
State of Kansas.
My commission expires-,-.
My commission expires Jan. 6, 1932.
5~0 Affidavit.
State of Kansas,
County of Geary, ss:
Kenneth Rose of lawful age being first duly sworn on
his oath deposes and says:
My name is Kenneth Rose; I live in Milford, Geary
County, Kansas; I am the Manager of the Telephone Ex-
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
275
change of Milford, Kansas; Married and the father of five
children; I am 47 years of age.
My wife and I have a radio in our home at Milford, Kan¬
sas, and daily since the early fall of 1929 I have been a
listener to the programs of station KFKB of Milford,
Kansas, and have paid particular attention to the Ques¬
tion Box as broadcast over said station, the lecturer being
Dr. J. R. Brinkley.
The manner in which the Medical Question Box is con¬
ducted is to give those who ask questions in good faith,
medical advice of a general nature, and it has a widespread
human interest appeal. It is interesting, entertaining and
helpful and it is becoming an object of curiosity in that
it is unique and unusual; not only does it arouse public
interest, but holds it. j
Dr. Brinkley in answering the questions propounded to
him by the listeners, has on many occasions to affiant’s
knowledge, advised his listeners to have a thorough physi¬
cal examination once or twice a year by their physician,
and that if they would do this many chronic diseases could
be averted or could be stopped in their inception; and
affiant further states he has also heard Dr. Brinkley ad¬
vise mothers to confer with their county health officer and
have their children vaccinated against typhoid, smallpox,
and diphtheria, and to consult a dentist regularly, to be
careful about their diet, to be sure the watejr thev drink
is pure water, and to get plenty of fresh air and sunshine,
and the importance of sufficient rest and the constant
watching for early symptoms of bad health.
Affiant further states he has heard Dr. J. R. Brinkley
emphatically impress upon the minds of his listeners that
KENNETH ROSE.
571
preventing disease was much safer than attempt¬
ing to treat it, and that the curing of many chronic
1 esultin 0 in much suffering, great
expense and loss of time.
Affiant further states that Dr. Brinkley’s method of dis¬
cussing health problems is entertaining, and that the doc¬
tor holds the attention of his listeners, his lectures not
being cut and dried, but variable, very agreeable to listen
to; and that the Question Box as conducted by Dr. Brink-
276
KKKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
lev is in its nature a verv interesting, entertaining, edu-
cational and informative talk, to which almost anyone
would be immediately attracted and his interest held.
Affiant further states he has become acquainted with a
number of persons who have had occasion to have Dr.
Brinkley prescribe for them over station KFKB and who
have taken the medicine as prescribed by the doctor, and
these persons have reported and told affiant they were
greatly benefit fed by the advice and prescriptions of Dr.
Brinkley.
Affiant frwther states that the programs of station
KFKB are received by a great number of people to his
knowledge, living in rural communities, being a great dis¬
tance from drugstores or physicians, and if radio station
KFKB should be silenced it would be a calamity to the
people of this caliber who are dependent upon this station
not only for their entertainment, but for their education
in health problems.
KENNETH ROSE.
Statu of Kansas,
County of Geary, ss :
Be it remembered that on the 28th day of May, 1930, be¬
fore me, the undersigned, a Notary Public in and for the
County and State aforesaid, personally appeared
572 Kenneth Rose, who is to me personally known, and
who being by me first duly sworn stated that he
was able to read and write the English language, and that
he had read the foregoing affidavit, that the matters and
facts therein seated were true, and he thereupon affixed his
name to said affidavit in my presence.
[Seal of L. McChesney, Notary Public, Geary County,
Kans.]
L. McCHESNEY,
Notary Public in and for Geary County,
State of Kansas.
My commission expires Jan. 6, 1932.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
277
573 Affidavit.
State of Kansas,
County of Geary, ss:
Clayton Seley, of lawful age, being first duly sworn on
liis oath deposes and states as follows:
My name is Clayton Seley. I am 45 years of age. I am
married and am the father of three children. I reside in
the city of Milford, County of Geary, State of Kansas and
have lived here for the past 25 years. I own and operate
the only cafe and eating house in Milford, Kansas.
My family and myself have a radio in our home, and for
several years have been constant listeners to the programs
as broadcast by Station KFKB of Milford, Kansas, and
1 personally have paid particular attention to the Medical
Question Box as conducted by Dr. Brinkley over this radio
station.
Your affiant understands from what he has heard of the
Medical Question Box that it is conducted for those that
ask questions in good faith and of a general nature, and
that he has heard Dr. J. R. Brinkley many tinies over this
Question Box advise his listeners to go to their physicians
and have a thorough medical examination at least once or
twice a year and that in so doing the listeners would then
be able if any thing was the matter with them physically,
to stop or treat the disease they were afflicted in its in¬
ception and in this way many chronic diseases as Cancer,
Tuberculosis, Brights Disease, and Diabetes can be suc¬
cessfully stopped.
Your affiant further states that he is personally ac¬
quainted with a large number of people who have taken
medicine as prescribed by Dr. Brinkley on his Medical
Question Box and that these people state that they have
been greatly benefited and that many times this affiant has
listened to Dr. J. R. Brinkley discuss health questions
over the radio, he has never at any time heard Dr. Brinkley
state of any of his prescriptions that this medicine would
cure any disease or replace the services of a! surgeon or
CLAYTON SELEY.
574 physician but that the medicine was prescribed as a
help to the person asking advice.
278
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Your affiant further states that the Question Box con¬
ducted by Dr. Brinkley is interesting, educational and help¬
ful and has a wide appeal and has become an object of
curiosity in that it is unique and unusual and has aroused
public interest in the community of Milford, Kansas, and
among the friends and acquaintances of this affiant. Not
only has it aroused public interest but it holds the interest
of the public.
Your affiant further states that he considers Dr. Brink¬
ley’s method of discussing health problems as entertaining
and unique, that the lectures of Dr. Brinkley are very in¬
teresting to his listeners, and the Medical Question Box
conducted by Dr. Brinkley is interesting, educational and
informative; to which one is immediately attracted and his
interest held.
Among many things your affiant has heard Dr. Brinkley
advise his listeners is that mothers should consult with the
County Health officer as to their children, have them exam¬
ined for small pox and typhoid fever; consult a dentist;
be careful of the children’s diet; and be sure the water is
pure; and use cream and milk that is free of germs; and
see that the children get plenty of fresh air and sunshine;
and your affiant has further heard Dr. Brinkley advise
people who were suffering from special ailments to go to
certain physicians who were specializing in the treatment
of such.
Your affiant further states that to his personal knowl¬
edge the programs of KFKB reach a large number of
people in the rural districts of Kansas, especially the
farming people and to these people in many cases, physi¬
cians are unavailable, and that the programs are enjoyed
by these people, and are high class and entertaining and
instructive; and if the license should be taken away from
this station it would be a calamity to the community in
which the affiant lives. The great majority of these people
not only depend on Station KFKB for their entertain-
CLAYTON SELEY.
575 ment but for help in their health problems.
CLAYTON SELEY,
Affiant.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
279
State of Kansas,
7 I
County of Geary, ss:
Be it remembered that on this 28th day of May, 1930,
before me, the undersigned, a Notary Public in and for the
County and State aforesaid, personally appeared Clayton
Seley, who is to me personally known, and who being by
me first duly sworn stated that he was able to read and w T rite
the English language, that he had read the foregoing affi¬
davit, and that the matters and facts therein stated were
true, and he thereupon affixed his name to said affidavit in
my presence.
[Seal of L. McChesney, Notary Public, Geary County,
Kans.]
L. McCHESNEY,
Notary Public in and for Geary County,
Stafe of Kansas.
My commission expires Jan 6,1932.
576 J. R. Brinkley, of lawful age, on his oath states
as follows:
That the KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc., pays me
$200.00 a month for my medical lectures and the medical
question box; that in preparing and delivering these lec¬
tures and answering the questions over the question box
I do not feel that this amount compensates me for this
important work, as my chief compensation is in the knowl¬
edge that I am helping a large number of people in their
health problems, that I am encouraging them to give atten¬
tion to their health, to their diet, to their manner of living,
advising them to consult a physician, which I do at least
three times a day, and have continued to do even though
some of my competitors have attacked me because they
thought that the broadcasting of these matters over the
radio was interfering with their practice and cutting off
some of their revenue; that when I first began the question
box in November of 1929, I only broadcast a half hour a
day, but the demand for this increased to such an extent
that at the request of the management of the KFIvB Broad¬
casting Association, Inc., I increased it to two periods a
day of one-half hour each, and because of the ever increas¬
ing demand, I increased it to three periods a day of one-
280 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
half hour each about the last of January; that the amount
of time I occupy on the air depends upon the public interest
and demand for lectures and discussions of medical and
health subjects; that the hour and a half a day which I
have been giving to the question box will not be increased
in any event, and will doubtless be diminished during the
summer months when the reception of a station broadcast¬
ing during daylight hours is materially reduced;
That my method of conducting the question box is to
give those who ask questions in good faith, and practically
all do, medical advice of a general nature, such as to con¬
sult a physician twice a year, consult a dentist at least
twice a year, to be careful about their diet, advising
577 the drinking of milk and cream, the benefits of
plenty of fresh air and sunshine and water, the
danger of colds and of neglect of themselves, the impor¬
tance of rest and of constantly watching the early symp¬
toms of bad health and recommend examinations by com¬
petent physcians; that prevention of disease is the keynote
of good health; I tell mothers that it is a disgrace to our
civilization and to them as mothers to have epidemics such
as smallpox, diphtheria, typhoid fever; I particularly point
out that we lost more men from disease in the Spanish-
Ameriean War than we lost through casualties; that
exactly the contrary was the case in the World War, due
to prevention, innoculation and vaccination; that I have
never prescribed medicine over the radio in eases of sore
throat for children, always telling the mother that sore
throat might develop into something serious such as diph¬
theria, and to consult a physician or the county health
officer;
That the question box is more in the nature of a series
of short, snappy, interesting and informative health talks
than anything else; that in most of the eases the listeners
have already consulted their physicians or have a chronic
condition, and have not been able to get relief, and Just
as they will consult more than one doctor so they have con¬
sulted me; but none of the medicines prescribed by me are
harmful or dangerous; that the prescription of medicines
came about in this way: Numerous inquiries came in stat¬
ing that they had used certain patent medicines or that the
doctor had prescribed and then filled the prescription in
281
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
his own office and that they could not obtain the prescrip¬
tion at a drug store, or that the prescriptions as filled at
the drug store were not helpful, and asking my advice as
to the treatment of numerous cases in which examination
had been made by a competent physician or a chronic case.
The wide-spread interest indicated a public interest in
these matters, and not wishing to ignore communications,
particularly when so many of them came to the broadcast¬
ing station, because of the possibility of ill will for the
station, I began prescribing over the radio and have
578 found it to be a very satisfactory method of so
doing, but my principal interest in the question box
is not in the prescriptions which bring me in no revenue,
although I believe they do bring the station varying
amounts depending upon the sale of constipation and liver
medicine, from which sale the druggists are supposed to
send the station $1.00 for each bottle, but because of the
opportunity it affords me to render a great public service
by keeping health matters constantly before the people
in an interesting and instructive manner.
I have heard numerous radio lectures by physicians and
health authorities, but in my opinion they fail to accomplish
their purpose because they are not entertaining. The ques¬
tion box combines entertainment with instruction, it
arouses interest and curiosity, it causes speculation as to
who in the community is making inquiry, and judging
from the inquiries and from conversation with many listen¬
ers, the method of conducting the question box is the best
one to arouse public interest in health matters and to reach
the greatest number of people.
That many, many times in the letters received for the
question box I see indications or symptoms which point
toward the beginnings of very serious ailments, such as
cancer, tuberculosis, diabetes, and Bright Ps Disease. In
all of those cases I strongly advise these people to imme¬
diately consult a competent physician and surgeon, and
I have received many, many letters telling me that they
have followed my advice and have had cancers removed
or received advice and treatment which has saved them
from an early death, and expressing their gratitude.
The medicines which I prescribe are never recommended
as a cure, nor do I directly or indirectly intimate that they
282
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
will cure any disease or supplant the personal services of
a physician and surgeon; they are merely helpful. The
important thing in my question box is the fact that I arouse
interest in pubic health; I educate the general pub-
579 lie in publie health, the same as the United States
Government does in its pamphlets and publications
and as the health authorities of the county and state do
through their publications and radio broadcasts. My work
supplements and in some respects is superior to those in
that it reaches the attention of many thousands who would
otherwise not be reached. I do not feel that I am com¬
peting with the competent physician or surgeon or with
the competent health officer; I am supplementing and as¬
sisting his work, and the thousands of letters which Station
KFKB receives substantiate this opinion.
This question box as conducted by me has a wide human
interest appeal; it is entertaining, instructive, interesting,
helpful, and an object of curiosity, unique, unusual, arouses
public interest and holds it, is especially valuable to people
located in the country or in towns where a good physician
is often lacking, substitutes good drugs for those of in¬
ferior quality such as many people have been obtaining,
and the information broadcast is based upon fifteen years
experience as a physician and surgeon, six years of which
time was devoted to the general practice of treating all
manner of ailments from which the people of a state such
as Kansas suffer. It does not displace any service ren¬
dered by any other station, nor can it be replaced by any
other facility. The public interest in this question box
and in the medical lectures cannot be questioned. The
sooner health authorities and medical associations, philan¬
thropic organizations, and others adopt this or similar
methods the quicker the people will be informed regarding
matters of health and the prevention of disease.
JNO. R. BRINKLEY.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 28th day of
May, A. D. 1930.
[Seal of L. McChesney, Notary Public, Geary County,
Kans.]
L. McCHESNEY,
Notary Public.
My commission expires Jan. 6, 1932.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
283
580
Affidavit,
State of Kansas,
County of Geary, ss:
George W. Beard, of lawful age, being first duly sworn
on his oath deposes and states as follows:
My name is George W. Beard, and I reside in the City
of Topeka, the County of Dickinson, the State of Kansas.
By occupation, I am a radio service man. | I am married
and the father of one child. My age is 41 years.
I am the owner of a Majestic radio set and since the
fall of 1929,1 have been a listener almost daily to the pro¬
grams as broadcast by Station KFKB of Milford, Kansas,
and during that time I have had many occasions to listen
to Dr. J. R. Brinkley conduct his Medical Question Box
over that Station.
I consider that the Medical Question Box is unique,
interesting, and very educational, and while I have not
had occasion to take any of the medicine as recommended
by Dr. J. R. Brinkley on his Medical Question Box, I have
heard him prescribe for many other people and know’ that
they have been benefited by taking these prescriptions. I
have heard Dr. J. R. Brinkley make many valuable sugges¬
tions as to the care of the body and have hbard him discuss
the value of fresh air, sun-light, exercise] proper eating,
and sufficient sleep. I have also heard him discuss the
symptoms of Tuberculosis, Diabetes, Cancer, Brights Dis¬
ease, and various other diseases, and explain them under-
standingly. From what I have learned from his discus¬
sions, if any symptoms of those diseases should attack
me or any member of my family, I should be put on. my
guard and consult a physician at once. Df. J. R. Brinkley
has taught this affiant that prevention of disease is better
than a cure and more preferable, and often times one of
these symptoms appearing, it is a direct w-arning for one
to go to his family physician for an examination. He has
also taught this affiant to be more careful about his health
i
GEORGE W. BEARD.
and to pay more attention and acquire more regular
581 habits.
284 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Affiant further states that he has heard Dr. Brink-
ley on numerous occasions while lecturing on his Medical
Question Box, advise and request people to go and see their
family physician and have regular health examinations at
stated periods, and from what he has heard of the lectures
of Dr. J. R. Brinkley he has decided to follow the advise
of Dr. Brinkley and make two visits a year to his physician
to have his health condition checked up.
GEORGE W. BEARD.
State of Kansas,
County of Geary, ss:
Be it remembered that on this 28th day of May, 1930,
before me the undersigned, a Notary Public in and for the
County and State aforesaid personally appeared George
W. Beard, who is to me personally known, and who, being
by me first duly sworn stated that he was able to read and
write the English language, that he had read the foregoing
affidavit, and that the matters and facts therein stated are
true; and he thereupon affixed his name to said affidavit in
my presence.
[Seal of L. McChesney, Notary Public, Geary County,
Kans.]
L. McCHESNEY,
Notary Public in and for Geary County,
State of Kansas.
My commission expires Jan. 6, 1932.
Commission expires-,-.
582 Docket No. 835.
App. Exhibit 37.
Hart, Dice & Carlson, Official Reporters.
May 20, 1930.
Introduced at Hearing Before Federal Radio Commission.
Statement and Affidavit of Mrs. Emily Jager, Residing in
the City of Falls City, County of Richardson, State of
Nebraska.
I have lived in the above community 15 years. I am
married and have two children, and I am 40 years of age.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
285
My husband’s occupation is that of a Dredge Boat Runner.
I am the owner of a Kolster radio set, and for the past
year have been a regular listener to the programs of Radio
Station KFKB of Milford, Kansas.
I enjoy the various features of this radio station’s pro¬
grams, including orchestra numbers, singing numbers, and
other musical entertainments, vaudeville dialogues, U. S.
Weather and Market Reports, Agricultural Information,
Religious Sermons, the “Tell Me a Story: Lady,” and the
Medical Talks and Lectures of Dr. John R. Brinkley. I am
interested in particular in Dr. Brinkley and his Medical
Question Box, of KFKB’s programs.
I consider the programs of KFKB educational as well as
entertaining and Dr. Brinkley’s lectures on health and right
living are appreciated by, and have been beneficial to me,
and should be to the people in general; and I have acted
upon the advice of Dr. Brinkley, as broadcasted over KFKB
and have taken for my health medicine prescribed by Dr.
Brinkley, and the results have been very satisfactory.
In all of the lectures that I have heard Dr. Brinkley give
I have never heard him use vile, profane, or vulgar lan¬
guage, or discuss sex questions, or use any words, terms
or phrases which would be unbecoming to public decency
or morals, or objectionable to anyone.
Dr. Brinkley, personally uses but a smhll amount of the
broadcasting time allotted to KFKB, the greater amount of
time being used in presenting the other features mentioned
above; and as one who has been benefited by Dr. Brinkley’s
lectures, and who firmly believes that the said lectures are
morally, mentally and physically uplifting and that the
service that Dr. Brinkley is rendering to the public in
general is beneficial, I strongly believe that KFKB should
have more power and time, especially in the evening,
583 so that working people who are now unable to hear
the programs of this station, could hear the same
and be benefit/ed thereby, all of which Would be for the
best interest of radio listeners and the public in general.
Mrs. EMILY JAGER.
286
Kl'KB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
State of Nebraska,
County of Richardson, ss:
Be it remembered on this 12th day of May, 1930, before
me the undersigned, a Notary Public within and for the
County and State aforesaid, personally appeared Mrs.
Emily Jager who is to me personally known, and who being
by me first duly sworn stated that she was able to read and
write the English Language, that she had read the fore¬
going affidavit, and that the matters and facts therein set
forth were true, and she thereupon affixed her name to said
affidavit in my presence.
[Notarial Seal J. J. Heelan, Richardson County,
Nebr.]
Commission expires Oct. 25, 1933.
J. J. HEELAN,
Notary Public within and for
Richardson County, State of Nebraska.
My commission expires-, -.
Listener Has Taken Medicine.
584 Affidavit.
State of Kansas,
County of Crawford, ss:
Mv name is Mrs. Homer Sisk and I reside in the citv of
mt *
Pittsburg, Crawford County, Kansas. 1 am married, 43
years of age and reside with my husband, whose business
is that of Captain No. 2, City Fire Station. We have one
child and I have lived in this community all of my life.
For the past year I have been a regular listener to pro¬
grams of Station KFKB. My husband and I own an At¬
water Kent Radio set. I enjoy the lectures of Dr. Brinkley
and his Medical Question Box and during the past year I
have paid particular attention to his Medical Question Box
and am very much interested in it. Have listened to him
almost daily and during that time I have yet to hear Dr.
Brinkley use any vile, obscene or obnoxious language, or
discuss pregnancy or sex questions and T have no complaint
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
287
to make about his lectures or talks, in fact I am very much
in favor of them.
I have also had occasion to take medicine that Dr. Brink-
ley has prescribed in his Medical Question Box and I can
honestly say that I have been very much benefited by the
medicine.
The class of programs that we have beeh receiving over
the air from Station KFKB is not only very instructive and
entertaining but is very beneficial and I am personally of
the opinion that this station should be allowed more time
so that they could broadcast during the evening and reach
more people.
I have carefully read the above statement and the matters
and facts therein stated are true, so help me God.
Mrs. HOMER SISK.
State of Kansas,
County of Crawford, ss: \
Be it remembered on this 23 day of April, 1930, before
me the undersigned, a Notary Public in and for the County
and State aforesaid personally appeared Mrs. Homer Sisk
who is to me personally known and who by me being first
duly sworn stated that she was able to read and write the
English language, that she had read the foregoing affidavit
and that the matters and facts therein set forth were true
and she thereupon affixed her name to said affidavit in my
presence. I
j
[Seal R. 0. Peterson, Notary Public, Crawford
County, Kans.]
R. 0. PETERSON,
Notary Public in and for Craivford Coiinty, Kansas.
My Commission expires Feb. 8, 1931.
585 Statement and Affidavit of Mr. Thomas Cullan, Re¬
siding in the City of Hemingford, County of Butte,
State of Nebraska.
I have lived in the above community 11 years. I am mar¬
ried and have 5 children, and I am 63 years of age. My oc¬
cupation is that of farming.
288 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
I am the owner of an Atwater Kent radio set, and for
the past IV 2 years have been a regular listener to the pro¬
grams of Radio Station KFKB of Milford, Kansas.
I enjoy the various features of this radio station’s pro¬
grams, including orchestra numbers, singing numbers, and
other musical entertainments, vaudeville dialogs, U. S.
Weather and Market Reports, Agricultural Information,
Religious Sermons, the “Tell Me a Story Lady,” and the
Medical Talks and Lectures of Dr. John R. Brinkley. I am
interested in particular in the Medical Question Box and
health talks given bv Dr. Brinklev over this station.
I consider the programs of KFKB educational as well
as entertaining and Dr. Brinkley’s lectures on health and
right living are appreciated by, and have been beneficial to
me. And in all of the lectures that I have heard Dr. Brink-
ley give I have never heard him use vile, profane, or vulgar
language, or discuss sex questions, or use any words, terms
or phrases which would be unbecoming to public decency
or morals, or objectionable to anyone. Neither have I
heard him make fraudulent, unreliable or misleading state¬
ments.
Dr. Brinkley personally uses but a small amount of the
broadcasting time allotted to KFKB, the greater amount
of time being used in presenting the other features men¬
tioned above; and as one who has been benefited by Dr.
Brinkley's lectures, and who firmly believes that the said
lectures are morally, mentally and physically uplifting and
that the service that Dr. Brinkley is rendering to the public
in general is beneficial, I strongly desire that KFKB
586 should have more power and time, especially in the
evening, so that working people who are now unable
to hear the programs of this station, could hear the same
and be benefited thereby, all of which would be for the best
interest of radio listeners and the public in general.
THOMAS CTJLLAN.
Statu of Nebraska,
County of Box Butte, ss:
Be it remembered on this 15 day of May, 1930, before me
the undersigned, a Notary Public within and for the County
and State aforesaid, personally appeared Mr. Thomas Cul-
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
289
lan, who is to me personally known, and who being by me
first duly sworn stated that he was able to read and write
the English Language, that he had read the foregoing affi¬
davit, and that the matters and facts therein set forth were
true, and he thereupon affixed his name to said affidavit in
my presence.
j
[E. M. Marlow, State of Nebraska. General Notarial
Seal.]
Commission Expires Feb. 3, 1933.
E. M. MARLOW,
Notary Public within \and for Box
Butte County, State of Nebraska.
My Commission Expires Feb. 3rd, 1933.
587 Docket No. 835.
i
Com. Exhibit E.
Hart, Dice & Carlson, Official Reporters.
May 21, 1930.
Introduced at Hearing Before Federal Radio Commission.
Federal Radio Commission. May 15, 1930.
Peabody, Kansas, May 12, 1930.
Federal Radio Commission,
Washington, D. C.
In re Station K. F. K. B., Milford, Kansas.
Dear Sirs:
I have been an interested listener to Dr. J. R. Brinkley’s
Medical Question Box since December, 1929, and I have
heard the following from his station when; he was at the
microphone:
1. Two young women who had several small children and
did not wish any more asked Dr. Brinkley’s advice and he
19—5240a !
290
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
told them to tie their husbands up in the barn until they
projnised to be good.
2. I have heard him (Dr. Brinkley) state what he con¬
sidered was the normal amount of sexual intercourse.
3. I have heard Dr. Brinkley discuss frankly and freely
the operation for the sterilization of men to control the
size of families.
4. I have heard Dr. Brinkley describe three or four times
an operation which consisted of freeing a gland from ad¬
hesions and he was evidently talking about circumcision in
women.
(Signed) Mrs. MARY BRAKEBILL,
611 North Maple Street.
State of Kansas,
County of Marion, ss:
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 13th day of May
1930, at Peabodv Kansas.
[Seal of Howard A. Ray, Notary Public, Marion
Countv, Kansas.]
HOWARD A. RAY,
Notary Public.
My Commission Expires Aug. 12, 1931.
588 Docket No. 835.
Com. Exhibit F.
Hart, Dice & Carlson, Official Reporters.
May 21, 1930.
Introduced at Hearing Before Federal Radio Commission.
State of Kansas,
Kingman County, ss:
I, Eugene Wallace, of lawful age and being first duly
sworn, do depose and say: That I am a graduate of Univ.
of Ill. Medical College, of the year 1905, and that I am now
and have been ever since my graduation an actively prac-
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
291
tising physician and surgeon in Kingman Co., Kansas. I
am a member of the State Medical Association and the
American Medical Association.
I have a radio in my home and have personally listened
to some of the programs and talks made over Radio Sta¬
tion KFKB at Milford, Kansas, by J. R. Brinkley, and have
what I consider authentic reports from metnbers of my
own family and from numerous patients, of other talks so
made by the said J. R. Brinkley, and from my knowledge
of the said J. R. Brinkley, gained as aforesaid I am of the
opinion that lie is engaging in practices highly unethical
in the medical profession, and in practices likely to result
in great harm to the general public. I consider it impossible
to safely prescribe for a patient merely from symptoms
indicated in a letter, which I believe the said T. R. Brinkley
to be doing, and that such methods are not only dangerous
because of the physician’s inability to properly diagnose,
but tend, in many cases, through Brinkley’s methods, to
create in a patient’s mind false symptoms. That many of
his talks are not only suggestive, but immoral and improper
to put over the air. In my opinion, the said J. R. Brinkley
is not only violating the old and time-honored ethics of
the medical profession, but is a menace to the public health
and morals within the area covered bv his radio station.
EUGENE WALLACE.
Subscribed and Sworn to before me this 10 dav of April,
1930. I
[Seal of J. H. Talbert, Jr., Notary Public, Kingman
County, Kans.]
J. H. TALBERT, Jr.
Notary Public.
My Commission expires 1-19-31.
292
K I'KB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
589 Docket No. 835.
Com. Exhibit D.
Hart, Dice & Carlson, Official Reporters.
May 21, 1930.
Introduced at Hearing Before Federal Radio Commission.
State of Kansas,
Sedgwick County, s.s:
I, Grace Dedrick, of lawful age, being first duly sworn,
upon oath depose and say that I am a qualified and experi¬
enced stenographer and typewriter, 28 years old, and am
and was at all times herein mentioned a resident of Wich¬
ita, Sedgwick County, Kansas; that I have had 8 years ex¬
perience as a stenographer; that for several years I have
been familiar with and have regularly listened to radio re¬
ception from various stations of the United States and
more particularly of the state of Kansas; that I have often
listened in to radio station KFKB, Dr. Brinkley’s Hospi¬
tal, at Milford; Kansas, and at the times hereinafter re¬
ferred to in connection with that station and hospital T
knew where to tune in and receive said radio station, and
did so tune in and receive said station at the times herein¬
after mentioned; that at various times on April 1st, 1930,
as indicated in the attached Exhibit “A,” pages 1 to 8
inclusive, and at various timse on April 2, 1930, as indi¬
cated in the attached Exhibit “A”, pages 8 and 9, and on
April 3, 1930, as indicated in the attached Exhibit “A,”
pages 9 and 10, and on April 4, 1930, as indicated in the
• attached Exhibit “A”, pages 10 and 11, and at various
times on April 7, 1930, as indicated in the attached Ex¬
hibit “A”, pages 11 and 12, and at various times on April
8, 1930, as indicated in the attached Exhibit “A”, pages 12
to 14, inc., and on April 9th, 1930, and April 16, 1930, as in¬
dicated in the attached Exhibit “A”, page 14, I tuned in
on and received the broadcasting from said station KFKB,
Dr. Brinkley’s Hospital, Milford, Kansas, on my radio at
my home in Wichita, Kansas; that from my former experi¬
ence in hearing said station I recognized the same; that it
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
293
was announced from said station that Dr. Brinkley was
speaking; and from my former reception from the same
station I recognized the voice as being the same one that
had often previously announced himself as being Dr.
Brinkley speaking; that on the aforesaid dates, towit,
April 4th to April 16th, 1930, inclusive, at the limes herein¬
before mentioned and while listening to said KFKB and to
said person announcing himself at said times^ as being Dr.
Brinkley speaking, I carefully, correctly and fully took
down in shorthand, and afterwards transcribed on the
typewriter, my shorthand notes of certain portions of the
talks of said person thus announcing himself over said sta¬
tion KFKB as being Dr. Brinkley speaking; that type¬
written transcript of said portions of said talks thus taken
down in shorthand and afterwards so typewritten by me,
is hereto attached, marked Exhibit “A” and made a part
of this affidavit; that said attached transcript marked Ex¬
hibit “A” is true and correct and is exactlviwhat I heard
V
and as I heard it at the times and dates as indicated in said
transcript from and over said radio station KFKB and
from the talks of said person so as aforesaid announcing
himself to be Dr. Brinkley speaking.
GRACE DEDRICK.
* I
Subscribed and sworn to before me by Grace Dedrick at
Wichita, Sedgwick County, Kansas, this May 16th, 1930.
[Seal of Norma Maurer, Notary Public, Sedgwick Co.,
Kans.]
NORMA MAURER,
Notary Public.
My commission expires Aug. 16, 1932.
590 Exhibit A.
9:30 A.
M., 4/1/30.
You are listening to Dr. Brinkley speaking from his of¬
fice over station KFKB. We must dig into: our question
business this morning. The code is OES, Somewhere in
Missouri. She says she enjoys our talks. She states her
case briefly, which I appreciate. She had an operation,
with her appendix, ovary and tubes removed a couple of
years ago; she is very nervous and has dizzy spells. She
294 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
says the salt solution and constipation and liver medicine
has already benefited here. In reply to your question No.
1, I am more or less of the opinion that while the symp¬
toms are to a great extent those of a premature menopause,
I think they are not, but yet they are due to the fact that
you have a very small amount of ovarian substance re¬
maining. In my practice in such cases as this I have for
many years used Prescription No. 61 for women. I think
you should, as well as Special Prescription No. 50, and I
think if you would go on a vegetable diet, a salt free diet,
for a while and use Prescriptions No. 64, 50 and 61, you
would be surprised at the benefit you would obtain. In
regard to your Question No. 2, I don’t know. None of us
knows. Anything I say is simply an opinion, and you will
have to wait and see.
A telegram from Code Mr. C. B. B., of Beatrice, Nebr.
This party had a gall bladder operation. He works all day
without any pain, and at 5:00 in the afternoon he has a
pain in the pit of his stomach under his ribs halfway be¬
tween the center of the stomach and his right side where
the incision was made. He is full of gas all the time and
has pains at night when he lies on his right side, not sharp
pains but dull, and these are present regardless of whether
he eats light or heavy. 57 years of age. It is one of two
things. The thing I see more than anything else is ad¬
hesions. In a case operated on for ulcers, gall stones,
naturally a tremendous amount of adhesions were formed.
I believe that a proper fitting abdominal support for this
gentleman, lifting up his abdomen, would help more than
anything he could try. There may be some tendency to
a rupture, but I do not see anything to indicate this since
his health is good, and I hardly see indications of a recur¬
rence of his trouble. Take Prescription No. 50 for men.
Also stomach powder used would give him the relief he
desires. Also put on this abdominal binder.
Here’s one from Wichita in regard to a child who has
sugar diabetes. Wants to know if it is curable, but I say
no. It is controllable. The party is broken out with a
red rash with acute itching. The child is loaded down with
sugar, and whatever diet and treatment you are using is
not sufficient to control it and your child is going to get
into serious trouble. The way it is treated is this: the
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
295
patient is placed in bed and given nothing but water to
drink and observed until they are absolutely sugar free.
Then when the patient becomes sugar free, feeding is re¬
sumed and it is determined how much of various foods
they can take until an excess of sugar is found in the blood.
When we feed a person and they are free of sugar, this is
the amount of food they can take and we know how much
Insulin will control or burn up the excess amount of food.
Of course the patient cannot take enough food to sustain
them. Then we weight out a certain amount of food and
feed them and give them Insulin to burn it up. You had
better get somebody that knows how to treat Diabetes and
get hold of this child. This rash is a bad, dangerous con¬
dition. Get that child on a proper Diabetes treat¬
ment.
591 Lena.—Her husband has enlargement of the glands
in the neck. Had it two years ago. Both sides
broke, disappeared on the right side. X-Ray treatments
two years ago. I don’t know whether these glands were
tubercular or not. Suppose they were. This is the most
likely. In all these cases, fresh air and sunshine, liberal
quantities of these two products, and nutritious food, al¬
ways these, milk, cream and eggs; a tablespoon of Maltine,
plain, three times a day, and a tablespoon of good cod
liver oil. Use prescription No. 50, and I lyould also sug¬
gest that you use Prescription No. 90. This;is listed as my
boil prescription, but it is a blood purifier. So is 91.
A lady in Oklahoma, wired from Caldwell, Kans. You
give this young lady prescriptions Nos. 61 and 67 and 50,
and she will be all right. You take some of her No. 50
yourself and also No. 80, and both of you will be all right.
A good friend in Oklahoma sends X-Ray pictures, and
it is a very poor picture; I can’t make much out of it.
Daughter has soreness in right side; 19 years of age. I
don’t suppose she has had Typhoid Fever, and I hardly
suspect gall stones, but I would put this lady if she was a
patient of mine on 50 for women and 80 for women and 62
for women. Keep her on them for a while and cut out an
excess of starches and sugars and fats, and the probabili¬
ties are that she will make a very nice recovery. Have
your husband who has a dead liver, use No. 50 for men, and
his liver will wake up. Will ask the office to mail your
picture back to you.
296 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Here’s one from Tillie. She says she had an operation,
had some trouble 10 years ago. I think the operation was
unnecessary, and it isn’t very good sense to have an ovary
removed with the expectation of motherhood resulting
therefrom. Mv advice to you is to use Women’s Tonic
No. 50, 67 and 61. This combination will do for you what
you desire if any combination will, after three months per¬
sistent use.
Sunflower State, from Dresden, Ivans. Probably he has
gall stones. No, I don’t mean that, I mean kidney stones.
My advice to you is to put him on Prescription No. 80 and
50 for men, also 64. I think that he will be a whole lot
better. Also drink a lot of water.
Sinus.—Recovering from a sinus operation. Consider¬
able pain in the head, nervousness. Something else the
matter with vou instead of sinus, and it is verv foolish to
be on a vegetable diet. You are run down and my advice
is to go on a good nutritious diet, milk and eggs, and use
No. 79 and 80. These are for nerves and pains, also No. 61
and 50. Wash out vour head good bv emersing vour face
in a bowl of warm salt solution, three times a day, drawing
the solution through the nose. Also use a spray of oil,
Pineoleum is very good. Each time you wash your head
with salt water, soothe it with the spray. This combina¬
tion will do you more good than anything you have tried
yet.
Alarmed Over My Condition.—You are 50, with 4 chil¬
dren, a busy life, fair health. My dear lady, you ought to
get busy on Prescription No. 50, for women, 61 for women,
58 for women and 79 for women. They will take care of
your nervous, excitable condition, and don’t forget your
Maltine, milk, cream and cod liver oil.
592 * Edith 6f Joplin.—You feel fine and full of pep.
Very, very foolish to consider having one of your
valuable organs 1 removed simply because you went out on
a camping trip and strained yourself. A rest at that time
would have done wonders and old Mother Nature would
have come along with her helping hands. Well, you have
some deposits in your joints, and I have told you about
these in young people. They are not painful. One thing
is drink orange juice, from as many as a dozen oranges a
day. 10 grains of Calcium Lactate three times a day.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
297
Lots of milk and to that add a lot of lime water. This is
more Calcium. Drink two or three quarts a day if you
can. Keep this annoying treatment. It is not very pleas¬
ant but keep it up and you will be all right., Get the habit
of drinking milk and cream.
For three months take Dr. Brinkley’s treatment for child¬
less homes. Of course doctors say it is vulgar for me to
tell you about this, but we are taking a chance and we
don’t think it is obscene down here. If I can help some
father and mother that do not have children in their home,
to bring a little darling into their home, just one, through
my suggestions I will take all the eussings and a lot more
than I have already taken from my ethical friends. If
this lady will take 50 and 61 and that good old standby of
mine, No. 67, for about three months, and see if there isn’t
a great big change taking place. Don’t have an operation.
Jessica.—You are a whole woman. I am glad of that.
65 pounds overweight and very constipated. The special
numbers to reduce weight are Nos. 60, 50 and 62, and cut
out some starches, sugars and fats, and watch that excess
weight rolling away. No. 60 is for reducing, a liquid, not
a capsule.
Luella.—Taking the liver medicine and thinks it is won¬
derful, and I believe everybody else does too. She wants to
reduce. Get 50, 60, 61 and 62. This combihation is going
to do you more good than anything, because it supplies the
lacking glandular substance that you need. She says her
son was obstinately constipated and the constipation medi¬
cine is the best thing she has found. If you will give him
more roughage and feed him more fruits and vegetables
and keep him on this medicine a good time, and don’t give
him any senna. It is hard on the kidneys.
I had a lady who wanted an answer. She sent me a speci¬
men bv mail and it is bloodv. I want to tell this ladv that
* •" •/
this is a dangerous symptom. It, I think, is a tubercular
kidney, or stones, providing it is an uncontaminated speci¬
men. What she told me about the weakness she has, loss
of weight, and extreme pain in side, she should have a very
careful examination at once.
2222. Worried Mother.—You say your son is 20 years
of age, very much underweight, no appetite. He should have
a strict milk and egg diet, nothing else. Maltine also. Get
some stomach powder. It is very necessary to do this. You
298 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
ought to have him examined; I think he needs a personal
examination. It looks like there is something dangerously
the matter.
JBK.—Several years ago specialist advised abdominal
operation and removal of daughter’s arm. Saved the
daughter’s arm, but let the surgeon operate on her. I
think many doctors operate for the money, when medicine
would cure it. This ladv wants me to describe bronchial
%
asthma. Probably some time I will discuss these things
for vou. I don’t have time this morning, and cannot
*/ ^ •
do it.
593 Former Milford Resident.—She says her baby is
28 months old and has weeping eczema. Something
mighty bad. Give a good hot soda water bath every night,
and use the eczema medicine from my cooperating drug¬
gists. Keep this away from his eyes, and don’t get scared
if he swells from its use. I hope your neighbor hears
this answer and will tell you what I said.
12:30 P. M., 4/1/30.
I would like to tell the ladv who wires me from Wichita,
Ivans., that what she wants to take is Prescription No. 68.
Stick to it until it brings the desired relief. Take a table¬
spoonful in some hot water every hour or two and keep it
up and it will control the condition. As a regular treat¬
ment to cure yourself you ought to take Prescription 67.
You will understand what I mean is this: Prescription No.
50 is special for women and should be used as needed and
kept in your home. Prescription 68 should be kept in
your home for relief of just such a condition as is annoying
you now. Prescription No. 67 should be taken all the time
to put back into normal function those delicate organs of
your body that need assistance. Along with the regular
treatment of 67, for replenishing glandular substance you
should take 61. I hope this lady that wires me from
Wichita has heard her reply. She doesn’t give a code but
I think she will recognize it as it is the only telegram I have
from Wichita today.
Pansy.—A daughter that had two spells six months apart,
and this is a case I think of either Chorea or Epilepsy, likely
epilepsy. This child should be examined by a capable ex-
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION. 299
aminer who is familiar with these two nervous diseases,
and they require a very special, absolutely salt-free diet.
Salt makes these conditions much worse. There is always
some trouble in the intestinal tract, constipation and
auto-intoxication. For that reason, the bowels must be
kept very open. The diet principally of fruit and vegeta¬
bles, no salt, no pepper, no spices. Meats are bad, sugar is
worse, so are starches. They are a problehi and should be
examined for focal infections and treated accordingly.
Here is a telegram from one of my listeners. She is
Worried, in South Omaha. In view of yohr age and your
condition, a pain around your heart, some kidney involve¬
ment, I think I would advise you to eat more fruits and
more vegetables and less salt and condiments, cutting them
out, and use No. 64. I think I would use that right along,
a tablespoonful in water every three or four hours, along
with a salt-free and vegetable diet. Eat fish and fowl for
your meat, no eggs, no condiments. Be very careful in
that regard. I would get Prescription No. 50 for women
instead of 114, which is more suited to your condition. I
would use a gallon of hot salt solution twice a day, night
and morning, and also I would suggest that you use No. 67
about three times a day, or every three or four hours, and
quit worrying. Do these things and you will be all right
and you will get along all right, but you must do what I
have told you, because if you are expecting to become a
mother and have these annoyances now, some involvement
of the kidneys, they are liable to get worse later on, there¬
fore it behooves you to start in on this regime at the pres¬
ent time and carry it through.
594 Someone writes me if there is a cure for pernicious
anaemia. The arsenic solution should be kept up, I
guess, and milk and cream and Maltine and Cod Liver Oil,
but the best thing for pernicious anaemia is large quantities
of raw liver three times a day, mixed with fruits and
vegetables. Get it into yourself, two or three pounds a day.
Keep it up. Stick to it and raw liver internally will come
nearer producing results than anything we have.
Live and Love and Let.—States she is taking three of
my prescriptions and wants the new prescriptions. The
new prescriptions for you are No. 50, 60, 61 and 62. They
300 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
are wonderful. In regard to your husband, give him No.
50 for men and No. 80 for men. If he will take these two
he will find complete relief. There is not any longer any
such prescription as 85.
The next code is Ozark Jimmie. Starts off by saying,
“Stay right in there, big boy. Like to hear the truth about
the old carcass once in a while.” 37 years old, pain in
right side about five inches to the right of the pit of the
stomach and below the ribs. Hurts all the time, not severe.
Probablv gall bladder. If vou are a ladv, vou will take
No. 50 for women and if you are a man, you will take No.
50 for men. Send to Duryee’s, Oxford. Nebr., for some
stomach powders.
A Peanut of Nebr.—A little girl. 6 years, complains of
cramps. I think she is wormy. This little girl she says
eats a lot of peanut butter. Ask for Prescription 94 for
her worms. Follow directions that the druggist will give
you and. I think she will get rid of that pain. In regard to
yourself, you have had an operation, had your appendix
taken out. You are going to get into trouble a little later
on. No. the half an ovary you have left will not e-row and
will not function very long in the place of two. It is over¬
loaded. You will find that out in a little while. Gland dis¬
function is the cause of the cold perspiration. My advice is
No. 61 and stav on it for about 10 years. It is a very ex¬
pensive prescription. Also use 50 special for women.
Call Me Mother of Six.—She is not coming to me for
help for herself, but she wants me to tell expectant mothers
to care for their teeth. She writes me this because she
heard me advise an expectant mother not to have a tooth
extracted at this time. This is some good advice my friend
is bringing up. Calcium Lactate, an expectant mother
should take this all the time. That keeps the teeth from
getting so brittle and decaying so readily. If an expectant
mother would take this all the time she would save a lot
of tooth trouble that comes to so many of these dear good
people at this time of life, and I thank you, good friend,
for mentioning it. A good tooth brush with any kind of a
cleansing lotion or paste on it is all right. Keep your teeth
clean three times a day. Not a bad idea to see a dentist
once in a while.
Mother of 5-Year Old Boy in Nebraska.—She has the
same old pain that so many of our lady friends have, an
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operation for appendicitis and now the doctor tells her
that it is her gall bladder. I don’t see why he didn’t ex¬
amine it at the time he took out the appendix. If you
will quit consulting so many of your friends and take No.
50 and 67 and 80, you will find out you do not need an op¬
eration. You’ll probably find out you never did need
one.
595 One from South Dakota wants to know if we ac¬
cept women patients. We will when we get ou£ new
building open. The men have a monopoly at the present
time.
Here’s one from Nebraska, about your sister-in-law.
Operations for misplacement of the stomach, as you men¬
tion, are always unsatisfactory, and it makes no difference
whether a stomach is hanging straight up and down or
crossways or wow, an operation is usually of no conse¬
quence. If she can go to the doctor and get built up for
an operation she can go to a doctor and get built up so
she will not have to have an operation. Anybody that can
gain does not need an operation. If she will use a gallon
of salt solution night and morning and No. 50 and 67 and
build herself up with milk and cream and Maltine and
Cod Liver Oil, she will find out that this is a lot better
than operating.
Mother of two little girls who thinks I am doing a won¬
derful work. The prescription that you need is to use a
gallon of salt solution night and morning and also prescrip¬
tion No. 67. You will find that 67 will cure this condition,
together with 50, and the salt solution. I hope you heard
your answer and will benefit thereby. Nothing for you
to worry about at all.
Faith.—Six years ago you underwent an operation for
fibroid tumors. You had a goiter and had an operation
for that. The trouble is a tumor pressing on the nerves,
an internal tumor, and I would suggest; that you try 80
and 67 and 50. See if these won’t help you.
Always Listening in if Possible.—Your mother is 59.
She is nervous and weak, back very weak, and what she
wants to take is 50 and 67 and you want 50 and 62.
A Question.—“You may call this a simple question, but
none of my doctors have answered it for me.” A very
simple question. She wants to know why she has a pulsa-
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302 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
tion in her stomach like her heart was beating. Because
you have gas in it. Use 50 and Duryee’s Stomach powder.
This will take care of this condition very satisfactorily. I
don’t know who it is you are talking about here when you
say he is in good health only has a stinging pain next to
his right side. No, I don’t think this is a rupture at all.
It is an infection I think from the right lobe of the prostate
gland.
Youth.—Is the baby a bottle fed or breast fed? If it is
a breast baby, go easy with the 114. You should take No.
67 and this will overcome your irritable disposition. In
regard to your father losing weight, doesn’t rest well at
night, tired out most of the time. I think he has prostate
gland enlargement, Bright’s Disease and some heart in¬
volvement. I think it is his prostate causing him the trouble.
44-S.—I want you to take No. 50 and No. 64 for your
trouble. In regard to your wife, give her 50 special for
women and No. 61 special for women and 79. Hot salt
water is mighty good. Thank you for the nice things you
said.
Here’s one I don’t see anv code. Wants to ask a few
questions about your case. You have been told you had
tuberculosis, but you don’t think you have. You had a
hemmor-age, a very good indication. You have a cough
and I wouldn’t be surprised if you don’t have
596 tuberculosis in the left lung. These are symptoms.
You need rest in bed, sunshine, milk and eggs, cod
liver oil and Maltine.
Mabel.—If you had listened to what I told you about
people that had broken ribs, to put on adhesive tape from
the center of the back to the center of the ribs. It may be
since this has been broken for some time that there is no
union between the ends of the broken bone. It may be
necessary to take out the cartilege and put in a little wir¬
ing. You can get considerable relief from your cough by
using No. 87 and 81. Electrical treatments, as you found,
will give no results. They can’t set broken bones. The
application is simply a waste of money, as you have found
out. Notice that at the end of your letter you told me
what you should have in the first place. You had X-Ray
Pictures taken and it is not knit together. The only way
to get it to knit together is putting a little wire in there
to hold it together.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
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Husband.—Always had quite annoying headaches in the
back of his head and neck and insists on taking Epsom
Salts. Let him go ahead and take them, they will kill him
some day. The longer he takes them, the worse he will
feel. They take fluids from the body. You take a dose of
salts and in a few minutes you crave water. It should
not be taken. The hemorr-age you speak about is a bad
sign. Might be some internal hem-r-oid. I don’t know, but
you certainly need some examinations and ought to be taken
off this Salts business.
J. A. M., Nebraska.—40 years of age, been miserable
a year, pain in the right side. I think you had better take
No. 60 and 52. \
N-43 Sutton.—Your mother is extremely nervous, a
crawling, creeping sensation in limbs, pain in lower limbs
and hips. I do not advise an operation for the removal
of gall bladder,.because I don’t think she is able to undergo
it, and I hope that the drug store in Clay Center hears this
so that they can give you No. 50 for women, and 64. Put
her on a salt-free and vegetable diet, free of condiments.
Muehlbach.—You need No. 50 for women, and also No.
61 and 62, as well as No. 67, but you say you can’t take
medicine, so there is no use to write to mei
Discouraged.—You need No. 68 very much, also 61, and
50, and a good nutritious diet.
597 2:30 P. M. 4/1/30.
Still Hattie.—This party has been told that they have a
leaking heart. Had some sort of break down years ago.
Dr. said had a leaking heart. Had to stay in bed three
months, gave medicine, took Epsom Salts, didn’t do any
good. Still taking treatment, heart is fair. Wonder where
the infection is. You say your joints and limbs ache; must
be an infection some place. I see you have had your ton¬
sils and adenoids removed some time ago, but that does
not mean you do not have infection. You are constipated
and underweight. Rest in bed is mighty good for you. I
think one of the best things for your nervous heart and
as a general heart tonic which is absolutely harmless is
Prescription No. 86 from one of my cooperating druggists.
Take Prescription No. 50 and also 67 and take a lot of
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KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
milk and cream and Maltine and Cod Liver Oil and you
are going to be helped a great deal.
John.—Probably albumen causes the frequency, and
stones in the bladder will cause frequency. One of the
good things for you to do is to use No. 50 for men and an¬
other good one for you to use is No. 78, and No. 64.
Danforth.—A man 65 years of age, under weight. Has
had influenza and it settled in his prostate gland and his
rheumatism is from an infected prostate. His prostate has
been involved for a long time. That is where your infec¬
tion was all the while. I think that if we had had you as
a patient a few years ago vre could have stopped all these
troubles you have. You will get some relief from Prescrip¬
tions 80, 62 and 50.
Springtime.—In regard to your aunt. She suffers pain
under her right shoulder blade and in the pit of her stom¬
ach. Badly bloated, constipated, head ache. No. 64 with
a salt free diet, fruit and vegetables only, meats are fish
and fowl, no eggs, no red meat, no salt or condiments.
Also use No. 50. In addition give her No. 80.
9 A. M. 4/2/30.
Trust You.—Wants to know if an operation is necessary.
Says her appendix is imbedded in her secum. The ap¬
pendix is normally attached to the secum. It would re¬
quire a very wonderful interpretation of xray plates and
a wonderfully clear and defined picture to make it possible
for a physician to say positively that the appendix was
imbedded in the secum. It might be and in many cases is.
She says that she has some trouble in the ascending and
transverse colon; infection in the gall bladder. This won¬
derful diagnosis sounds fishy to me. It is too clear and
clean cut. Sounds too much like a text-book diagnosis.
She has no pain, no fever, yet she has all these other things.
She claims her symptoms are constipation and nervous¬
ness. I would say that if the diagnosis that you sent to me
is correct, that an operation for the removal of the ap¬
pendix and drainage of the gall bladder would seem to be
indicated, but not knowing whether the diagnosis is ac¬
curate or not because it is so clean cut and so nicely de¬
scribed, I don’t know.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
305
598 9:30 A. M. 4/2/30.
Here’s a letter from a lady out here in Brownell, Kans.
This lady is suffering from cystitis. We think here in the
hospital that the best treatment is intravenus injections
of mercurochrome. I think a salt free and Condiment free
diet would be one of the first things I would tell you to do.
Another is get Prescription 64 and 65. These two are very
soothing in these conditions. For the annoying aching, it
is due to congestion, and it is not going to be very much
better until the inflam-ation subsides. Fori pain I recom¬
mend Prescription 80. Keep your bowels open with the
constipation medicine. You are 58 years of age and your
blood pressure is above normal. The prescriptions I have
recommended for you and the diet will relieve the blood
pressure.
Lena, of Butler County.—She wants to ask me about her
husband. He is 54, eats well, sleeps well. She has to be
careful and not feed him greasy foods. I would suggest
that you try giving him special Prescription 50 for men.
These hot flashes he has with his face flushing are indica¬
tive of the change that men undergo. These periods of un¬
consciousness are no doubt light attacks of apilepsy. I
think that a grain and a half of luminal tablets, one night
and morning, and give him 50, keeping him on a salt free
and fruit and vegetable diet, you will find that your husband
receives a great deal of improvement.
2:30 P. M. 4/2/30.
Springtime.—Says she has been told that she had quite
a lot of sugar and she dieted 6 months and was not allowed
any sugar or starch. If you have diabetes I think the
Maltine had entirely too much sugar for you. I wouldn’t
advise you to use Prescription 107 but I would advise 64.
I would advise you to use 61 also. If you have sugar
diabetes you are simply obliged to reduce the intake of
sugars and starches, not for six months but for an entire
lifetime. I have also found very good in diabetes pre¬
scription 55.
Sunshine.—Annoyed with swelling of the feet. I think
that you had better take treatment for your kidneys. That
20—5240<x
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KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
is what I would advise. I would advise you to go on a salt
free diet, fruit and vegetables, and use Prescriptions 50
and 64.
12:30 P. M. 4/3/30.
New.—Age 52. Blood pressure is 176, I presume cysto-
lic. Had an operation 12 years ago, removed everything.
She is constipated and has a gall bladder and liver ail¬
ment, eczema on her head and a few blotches on her body,
gas in her stomach. Of course you could not expect to be
in good health with so many of your vital organs missing,
because they have an important function in your body and
when they are taken out and that function is denied your
body, you can never expect to function normally as you
did before your operation. I would advise you to use Pre¬
scription 50 for women and use it regularly because I think
it will do you a great deal of good. In regard to the eczema
on your body, one of my cooperating druggists can supply
this preparation to you but I would not advise you to use it
on vour head unless vou do so carefully. Go on a salt free
diet. Take 50 and 61. 61 is especially indicated for you and
vou need it verv much and after vou have used it a while
%•
I am sure the benefit received will be tremendous and vou
*
will be surprised at the good results that w T ill come to you.
Also use special 64. This is indicated in your high
599 blood pressure. I feel convined that you will be
greatly benefited.
1 2 3—Booster for Dr. Brinkley.—My wife has doctored
for 16 years and can’t find any relief from anybody. She
had the mumps. She is having to spend a lot of time in bed,
suffering and nervous and can’t stand on her feet. Has a
dead ache between her shoulders all the time and a pain in
the back of her head and left arm is numb. And is very ner¬
vous and aches and pains everywhere. This is a complete
disfunction of the glandular system due to the infectious
disease of mumps she had several years ago. My advice
would be to put her on a food consisting of two tablespoons
of honey, cracked ice, juice of one orange, half a lemon;
stirring, add enough pure cream to fill the glass and keep
stirring to keep it from curdling, three times a day. I want
you to give her prescription 61 which is specially indicated
for her and will do her more good than anything she has
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
307
ever had. It is not going to act quick because her case is of
16 years standing. Also take 79 for her nerves and 80 for
her pain.
A Lady in Hays, Kans.—Her brother has sugar diabetes
and had it two vears. He lives in Wichita and is not receiv-
%/
ing any help at all from Wichita. Yes, he can be helped,
and the thing to do is to find out his sugar tolerance. Pre¬
scription 85 is also good in these cases, to be taken from
three to a dozen, after eating or before eating, as the direc¬
tions will tell vou when you get it.
P. M. 12:30 4/4/30.
Just a Mother.—My baby 5 years old is normal in weight,
verv small eater. Xot sick but cross and irritable. Noctur-
%•
nal enuresis is something, I assure you, none of us know
very much about the cause of it. I don’t believe that remov-
ing the tonsils is going to influence it one particle. I would
take a chance and give him a worm prescription first and
see how that worked. The worm prescription I recommend
is #94. Then I would try for a while 65 anc[ see how that
would work out.
Peggy, 11-22.—I am 42 years of age and weight 153.
Blood pressure is 172. This is an endocrine disturbance
due to your age. What you have to do is to take Prescrip¬
tions 50, 61, 62 and 67. When we get through with that
treatment we are going to get some mightvi good results.
Yes, you want to take the liver and constipation medicine.
Cut out salt and condiments. Don’t eat any meat except
fish and fowl, and watch yourself get so much better.
JT888.—For the skin disease vou mention vou might trv
Prescription 69. Consult with one of the cooperating drug¬
gists and let him explain to you the method of that treat¬
ment.
XYZ Clay Center.—40 years of age. Dull aching pain be¬
tween my shoulder blades. Had the influenza about a
month ago. Dizzy spells. You get Prescriptions 50, 61 and
67 and take these cautiously and eat more fruits and veg¬
etables and less salt and in addition take Prescription 64.
You are going to be so much better.
MME of Simpson.—Your mother is very much over¬
weight. I would suggest that you call for a combination
Prescription 60 for your mother. In regard to yourself I
notice you are more nervous since your operation than be-
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308 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
fore. You need 50, 61, 67 and 79. I am sorry you had the
operation. You now find it has made you much
600 worse. I could have told you that.
9:30 A. M. 4/7/30.
Married Ann.—32 years of age. 8 years ago had one of
those operations, appendix and everything else. Probably
the pain you have is gas in your intestinal tract due to
adhesions. Cod liver oil and Maltine would me mighty won¬
derful for you. Hot salt solution, a gallon of it night and
morning. (Stenographer’s Note: directions for use of salt
water not given.) For your tiredness and being irritable,
I would strongly advise your using Prescription 61, also 79.
24 vears old, been married over five vears. Three months
ago you had an operation and I am afraid because you had
this operation you are going to have to have another one.
Verv sorrv that vou have gone into this surgical work. You
might try Prescriptions 61 and 68 and get relief before
going into another operation, but I am awfully afraid that
vou have got vourself into an awful lot of trouble.
Melrose, Kans.—My suggestion is before you have an
operation that you give good faithful attention to and use
of Prescriptions 61 and 68. Go to bed and take them faith¬
fully. Use a gallon of hot salt solution night and morning.
Xo, I don’t think there is any danger of anything bursting.
12:30 P. M. 4/7/30.
Anxious.—41 years old, never had an operation. Been
feeling bad over a year. Headaches and pains here and
pains there, nervous and trembling, sometimes feeling like
you were going to drift away somewhere. Rheumatism in
the right hip. Yes, you should take something else from
what you are taking, and that should be Xo. 61 and 64. You
must take these. In addition to this you should take 67 for
yourself, there is some slight involvement of the thyroid
gland that is due to your age. In regard to the daughter, 7
years of age, enlarged tonsils and gathering in her head. I
would advise having her tonsils removed this spring.
Mrs. JCT.—Daughter 14 years of age. Has been having
trouble the last two weeks with her ears. Began with sharp
shooting pains behind her ear. In two or three days the
other ear did the same. Comes on two or three times a day
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION
309
and are usually of short duration. The thing I like best in
these painful ears is an antiseptic solution that is might-
good, Campho Phenique, 5 drops of this, heated in a spoon
until it is right warm, dropped into the ear and plugged
with cotton. It is caused by an infection. Look into the
teeth, tonsils and adenoids.
65, Guthrie, Okla.—Your symptoms are swelling of
ankles, pain in hips, left shoulder blade, burning pain at
base of spine, gas spells. Yes, I would recommend a salt
free diet, fruit and vegetables. Use 50 and 64 and 64 for a
good long time and the diet for a good long time, and I think
this combination will materialy benefit your condition.
601 2:30 P. M. 4/7/30.
Mrs. J. B. G. In regard to yourself. You are too young
for the operation that you are talking about. You should
postpone this until you are 35 or 36. I advise you to be
very indulgent with the salt solution that you heard me
recommend, twice daily, and you will find this is very re¬
lieving, soothing and healing. For your nervousness I
would advise you to take Prescriptions 61 and 67. I would
also advise you to use No. 50 for women. A mighty good
prescription for your daughter’s cough, give her No. 81
in half dosage.
Shattered Womanhood.—Subject to cold easily. Pain in
left side directlv under ribs extending toward stomach; rub-
bing soothes the pain when hungry. I am not sure whether
this is an ulcer or not but it sounds like a gastric or duo¬
denal ulcer. I am going to advise you to go on a strict
diet of milk and cream and eggs, a glass every two hours,
raw eggs every two hours, for three months, and Duryee’s
stomach powder. Keep the bowels open and keep down
the gas and stick to that diet and nothing else.
38, no operations, eats no meats, sugar, starches. Seems
to me this is a poison of some nature and yet there are
some other things in your letter that don’t seem that way.
Take 50, 61 and 67 and I believe if you will stick to them
and eat fruits and vegetables and fish and fowl that in a
little while you will be entirely relieved.
Rew.—Question 1, lady 63 with a small sore on her right
cheek in front of her ear. It itches. 8 years ago she had a
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310 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
cancer oil her upper lip on the right side of her nose.
Treated with radium. There is a place down at Savannah,
Mo., that is very highly spoken of in the treatment of these
conditions. My opinion is that this is a so-called skin can¬
cer and should receive immediate treatment. In regard to
your nephew. Some of these cases are intractable of noc¬
turnal enuresis. The way you speak about him eating,
maybe he has a tapeworm, but I wouldn’t think he would
be as well nourished as he is. Somehow or other I think
a treatment for worms would be the first thing I would
think about. I think I would try Prescription 94, that is
for round worms, and see if that helps, and if it doesn’t
and that big appetite continued, I would be tempted to try
the tapeworm Prescription, 93.
9:30 A. M. 4/8/30.
Ida. She has not told me her blood pressure but because
her age and the dizziness I am pretty sure that there is a
very low grade kidney function. I would ask her to go
on the salt free diet. This takes a lot of work off the kid¬
neys. I am pretty sure that just the diet alone will mate¬
rially influence the spots and the dizzy spells and the un¬
certainty. I suppose you are quite sure there is no disease
of the spinal cord. This is one thing to always be taken
into consideration, because if you have a disease of the
spinal cord then of course the treatment would be entirely
different. I would recommend for you No. 50, and 64, also
65, and the diet.
CA.—A party has had influenza, a year ago, which left
her stomach and bowels very weak and she is extremely
nervous. You don’t give me very much information in
your letter. Your physician advised you to rest and you
are still suffering. I don’t see your age. As I have told
you, these infectious diseases oftentimes injure the
602 glands of our bodies a great deal. Therefore we
must endeavor to reconstruct and build up if pos¬
sible. I don’t know whether you mean by your stomach
and bowels being weak that your appetite is poor or
whether you have diarrhea, whether you have abdominal
pain or just what. It is difficult for me to tell very much
from your letter. About the best I can do is to tell you
to use Prescription 61 which is a good reconstructive for
FEDERAL, RADIO COMMISSION
311
your glandular system, and 86, which is a good nerve
tonic. If you are constipated or if you have trouble with
your kidneys, then we recommend Special 50 ior women
and sometimes Special 62 or sometimes 65.
A Booster—10 year old daughter, seems to be in good
health, but each time she is weighed at school her weight
worries me. Last weight was 102#. A good food for a
child of his kind is a tablespoonful of Malfine in a glass
of milk and cream, three times a day. I would also give her
small doses of No. 50. In regard to your wife, being con¬
siderably underweight and nervous, age 41, complains of a
constant pain in the top of her head and small of her back.
Teeth in good shape. Very easy to prescribe for a condi¬
tion like that. For your wife, No. 50, 61 and 67. This is
the combination she needs.
What Do vou Think.—Father is 63. A vear ago he was
run over by a car, his arm was broken, both bones split and
fractured, bones wired together. These sores, purple look¬
ing spots on his legs are no doubt varicose ulcers. Legs
hurt, swollen above normal size, can hardly work. The
first thing is that your father should go to bed. You ad¬
mit he has some kidney trouble and of course he has
prostate enlargement and some Bright’s disease. Prob¬
ably has weeping eczema. I -would forget about trying to
treat the eczema and try to do something for the other
condition. The first thing, put him on Prescription 50 for
men. Next, thing, put him on a salt free, fruit and vege¬
table diet. Also use 64, which is a wonderful prescription.
Let him lie down in bed in a semi-sitting posture and keep
him in bed and on this diet and these prescriptions. While
his feet are elevated in bed, you can apply any kind of a
healing salve to those wounds, and you will find he im¬
proves.
Mrs Mack.—Your husband has severe headaches and
been to many physicians. The more medicine and treat¬
ment he takes the worse he feels. Has had them for four
or five years. Gets up in the morning with a headache.
Probably migrane. I would certainly go into an extensive
examination and I would be mighty sure that the liver was
functioning, and one way to know would be to put him on
Special 50. Give him 62 and 50 and also give him 80. It
is worth trying. In regard to yourself, take 61 and 68. If
312
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
you will persist in 61 especially you will find that your
condition clears up.
12:30 P. M. 4/8/30.
Iris of Kansas.—43 years of age, always had good health
and am still all together. Have two daughters. The skin
condition you have on your hands I think is eczema and it
is spreading and yes, you can get the eczema medicine from
the cooperating druggists. No. 69, and follow the direc¬
tions.
Cedar Hill.—32 and have had an operation. Pain in the
small of the back in the hips down to each knee. Head¬
ache in the top and back of the head. Dizzy spells, pain
and soreness in the lower part of abdomen. Cod liver oil
and milk and eggs is mighty good for you and you need
Prescriptions 61, 67 and 50.
603 12:30 P. M. 4/8/30.
Mrs. HPH.—43 vears old. Nervous and bites nails. A
depressed, miserable feeling in the small of her back. I
would suggest that you use Prescription- 61 and 80, 67 and
50. You need that entire combination. In regard to your
sister-in-law with an infected left kidney. I suppose that
the exploratory operation performed disclosed some malig¬
nant condition. I understand that some treatment that is
being more or less successful is being advertised for cancer
over a station at Muscatine, Iowa. I am told they help a
great many people. It might be worth your investigating
it. 50 would be good for her condition that you mention.
Mrs. C. H. Olson.—43. Never had an operation. Only
thing that bothers me in my left leg, aches like a toothache.
Afraid to go to a doctor because I am afraid he would
want to cut it off. No, I don’t think so. I imagine there
must be some tumor formation or something pressing on
the blood vessels or nerves supplying that left leg. If you
try what I will suggest and don’t get relief, my advice is to
have an examination or go to your own physician. I sug¬
gest you try Prescriptions 80, 62 and 50. In regard to your
daughter, give her Prescriptions 61 and 50, and 67. This
combination will soon correct her troubles.
12:30 P. M. 4/9/30.
Lonesome.—Your mother is 43. If your mother is bleed¬
ing from her bowels, you have this investigated. She may
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
313
have a cancer of the lower bowel, but of course it wouldn’t
do any good to investigate it if she had it, because what
would she do for it? I notice the Constipation Medicine
has stopped the bleeding because her bowels have been kept
loose. I would advise you to get Prescription 82 for her for
local relief and I notice she had an operation nine years ago
for hemraor-hoids. She has a dull aching there. Mighty
suspicious of that. For you and your husband, you take
Prescriptions 50, 61 and 67. j
9:30 A. M. 4/16/30.
A Worried Mother.—In regard to the little two-year-old
boy. The child had colitis when he was 7 months of age.
Unfortunately this child has epilepsy. It follows infection
in children. It probably has followed the colitis he had
when quite small. All cases of epilepsy seem to have a lot
of intestinal congestion. A dose of Luminol night and
morning, about % grain night and morning, together with a
fruit and vegetable diet and keeping the bovfels very open,
is the very best treatment. I do not think there is any pos¬
sibility of him outgrowing these spells. It might be the
removal of his appendix would produce good results.
604
Applicant’s Ex. 42-a.
That Baby of Mine.—Wichita, Kansas. Has a seven¬
teen months old baby who has a breaking out on him
that resembles hives. Has them for a day of two and then
they go away. Has been correcting his diet; until now she
has him on milk and orange juice, but I would not give the
child castor oil. I would much prefer to give him the lemon
purge that is described on the back of a bottle of Squibbs.
Of course not the full sized doses. Bathe him in a tube of
water to which has been dissolved Epsom salt; and this will
be quite grateful to him, also a both of soda water is very
good. I would be inclined to say Milk of Mag. in this case;
and also to use No. 95 in small doses, and keep his bowels
open. Milk of Mag. is anti-acid. Also thank you for your
kind remarks.
314
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
605 Code: That Babv of Mine.
April 14, 1930.
Dear Dr. Brinkley:
My 17 month old boy has a breaking out which looks, to
me, like hives.
The welts raise up like misquito bites and itch dread¬
fully for a day or two & then go -way, new ones coming on
other parts of the body to take their place.
Our doctor said to give him more liquid foods and castor
oil. I did this and kept cutting out solid food until now
I have him on whole milk and orange juice.
606 As his bowels seemed quite lax I cut out the oil
last night and gave him a teaspoon of castoria in¬
stead.
I have been using carbolated vasoline on the welts to re¬
lieve the itching.
Now, dear Doctor, I have told you what I have been do¬
ing. Will you please tell me what I should do ?
I know vou are a verv busv man but I feel I must
607 take a little bit more time.
The other evening I was telling a 16 yr. old bride
what wonderful work you were doing & she flew into a rage
& denounced you, saying you said the most terrible things
over the radio, but would not tell me what you said. I felt
like spanking her until a few minutes later she told me one
of the dirtiest stories & then I realized it was her ignorance
and evil mindedness.
60S But I will still stand up for you and know you
will win.
Thanking you in advance I am,
Respectfullv,
Mrs. E. B. FRIZELLE,
1510 New York Ave.,
Wichita, Kans.
609 App. Ex. 42-b.
Lincolnite. Of Nebr. You ask me what would relieve
your mother of rheumatism? This is a very broad ques¬
tion. I would prefer to ask you what causes your mother’s
re^-matism, because there is a focal infection back of it, and
it must be located. Elimination is necessary; use 62 and
50, nothing is better than these for elimination. I think
No. 5240
KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc.,
Appellant,
vs.
'<$y
.3t*ate of Kansas
3S
^punty of Johnson
Federal Radio Ccomlasion
/
f
DOCKET to.
• -^cq. n c:<WT..
HART, DICE A CAftXW, O.tki
MAY 2 0 1.130
I&troduoed at bearing b<*fors
I, John L. Zahner of Route No. 8 of Lenexa, Kansas fEDEB
being duly sworn upon my oath state that I am a gardner and farmer
living upon my own farm* For two years I listened almost daily to
Dr, John R. 3rinkley of Milford, Kansas talk over the radio. I am
wixty four years old and have a trouble with a prostate gland
Dr. Brinkley described my symptoms and suffering exactly and he
kept telling over and over again over the radio how he could cure
anil such troubles as mine. I never knew there was such a man as
Dr. Brinkley until I heard him talk, over the radio. I MM naturally
could not conceive
thought that he must be all he claimed he was for I
it to be possible that this great government of ouri would give a
license to a quack and charlatan to operate a radio and broadcasting
station with which to rope in victims.
"I had read of the federal radio commission and pf how careful
t was to protect the public from frauds, and Dr. Brinkley himself
used to emphasize 4M over the radio that if he were jnot all he claimed
he was the government wwufcd soon put him off the air, and I reasoned
that it mast be so.
So X wrote to Dr. Brinkley and he wrote to me urging me to come td
l
an examination^o^as Dr. Brinkley adviaedjl went to Xllford.JM*
On the same train out of the union Station with me out of Kansas City
\»ere some twenty other men,all bound for Brinkley*a. On the way out-
to Milford we all got pretty well acquainted and I found that practical:
all of them had been attracted to Brinkley by his radio talks and ail
were going for some kind* of prostrate trouble.
We arrived at Brinkley's Sunday November 3rd 1929 at 4:30 P M
Patients were being examined all night. I was tne second examined and
suffered so from tais examination that I went to*^j?T*krs Brinkley came
into my room and said I had abad case ȣ that might |tum into blood
poison. She insisted that I be operated on at once £ I might not live
to get home unless I did. She scared me. She guaranteed me that in threi
days after the operation I would have relief. Thereupon she prepared a
check upon the Farmers State Bank of Lenexa, Kansas for seven hundred
and fifty dollars and told me that I had to eign it;before the-y would £
do anything ffir me. As I was suffering much I signed tne check.
No* 5240
KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc.,
▼s. Appellant,
Federal Radio Commission '*—+
Page Z
Then I'rs Brinkley handed me a prepared papas to sign as in which I was
tostate that I was in my right mind and that I approved of the operation
*bout to be performed* I signed this paper*
The next morning Dr* Osborne^operated on me,as,Dr. Brinkley was away*
After the operation I became worse and Dr* Osborne advised me that it
might be three months before I was any better. On Friday Dr. Brinkley
returned and asked me if I had gone through the routine. I told him I
had but that I was worse instead of better. He said it might be a year
Lefore I obtained ^ relief. The following Sunday which was a week from
tne (Lime I entered the hospital we were all ordered out, whether » * * w e »
wm not we were able to go, to make room for new patients.
After I got home it began to dawn upon me that I had been # victimize<
and I tried to 3top payment on ths check but Brinkley had already cashed V
I am worse off by far that when I went to Brinkley. His operation did
me no good at all but aid me harm. I have written Dr. Brinkley
telling him I was worse off than when I went to him but he keeps
patting me off. I^hawe d eman de d- t he ftt fHgpqd Mf + y -4 oV I<cnr=fcag*
teoer-Dr ; 3 rl nkl a y K.^t ho t •■■i /
I am convinced from ray expierence that Dr. John R. Brinkley is a
fraud and that he is using the radio and the United States malls to
k l t l» lure the sick and afflicted to his hoppital in Milford, Kansas
so that he may prey upon their fears and defraud them of their money.
This belief of mine is fortner strengthened by correspondence I
have had with several men who went with me to Milkord and were operated
*on by Dr. Brinkley and his associates. Each one that I have heard from
tells me that he was harmed instead of. benefited by the operation. For
example I have received a letter from E.W. Crawford, Llorrillton, Arkansas
’which states—"I have net been afewl- able to do a days work since I came
home from Brinkley's Hospital."I have taken six^i^SSSsisrB of the medicine
prescribed by Dr. B. inkiey and am worse off than before.» One letter from
Otto uoore of Lineville, Iowa says, “I have heard from several of the men
that were at the Brinkley hospital when you and I were there, and they
all report the same thing, no better. Erinkiey and his gang are a set
of quacks. Well, they only got $365.00 from me and I might, as well have
stuck it in the fire, for I am worse off than when 1 went there.»/
i My expiererice with Dr. Brinkkey and his associates has been the
same as these men J In answer to^Letter/ regarding my condition since
the operation Dr. Brinkley has stated that I was not living right and
has prescribed a Med diet together with certain pills which costs me 0'
Ho* 5840
ZFSB Broadcasting Association, Inc*,
vs* Appellant,
Federal Radio Commission
Page 3
seven dollars and fifty cents a box* These have not helped me. in the
least*
I non In worse shape than I was before I was operated on.
I feel that the money I spent was thrown away. I would nothave gone
to Dr. Brinkley It I had not heard of him through* the radio and
if !.had not believed that the Federal control over the radio was
such that he would not have been allowed to broadcast unless his
i
statements wsre supported by facts.
This affidavit has been made by me and written under my
direction*. It has been read to me in the presence of several
witnesses and then I have read it carefully myself. I make this
statement and affidavit under oath of my own free will and accord
without compensation but solely because of the fact that my
expierence has been so horrible that I am anxious to; protect
the public generally and particularly people suffering from afflictions
sinilar r 4e mine from falling into the hands of Dr. Brinkley and his
associates.
1930
Subscribed and sworn to this 14th day of May^in the presence of
Laura Zahner, affiant's daughter, and of A.B. MacDonald and Dean S.
Zsaiieir, the affiant being personally known to me as the party who
has subscribed his name hereto.
&
^//tootary Public
My commission expires October 21st, 1933
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
315
that the skin condition you mention is probably due to a
glandular disfunction and suggest you try 61. If you want
to reduce the combination is 50, 60, and 61.
610
“Lincolnite.
Lincoln, Nebr., April 14,1930.
Dr. J. R. Brinkley.
Dear Sir:
Would you please tell me what would relieve my mother
of rheumatism! She suffers a great deal of pain in her
shoulders, back and limbs. She’s past seventy years of age
and otherwise very rugged.
I too have rheumatism also acid stomach and dry itchy
skin that is making me very nerveous. I have no rash or
breaking out of any kind. Is that condition due to an inter¬
nal disorder or to improper functioning of the oil glands!
Would also like to reduce about twenty five pounds as
I’m overweight.
Will be away untih the 22nd of this month, if possible,
could you give me my answer on the noon hour broadcast
on that date!
Thanking you very very'much in advance I remain yours
“LINCOLNITE”.
P. S.—I am a woman thirty-nine years of age.
(Here follows photolihtographed pages 611 to 613 in¬
clusive. )
614
Docket No. 835.
App. 48. Exhibit 48.
Hart, Dice & Carlson, Official Reporters.
May 22, 1930.
Introduced at Hearing Before Federal Radio Commission.
Affidavit.
State of Texas,
County of Brown, ss:
Dr. H. Romines, of lawful age, being first duly sworn on
his oath deposes and states as follows:
316 KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
My name is Dr. H. Romines, and I live in the city of
Brownwood, Brown County, State of Texas. I am 50 years
of age and have resided in this community for years. I am
married, and have no children. I am a physician by pro¬
fession.
Prior to May 5, 1929, I had been suffering with Prostate
Gland trouble, and on the date mentioned I went to the
Brinkley Hospital, at Milford, Kansas and had a physical
examination.
My case was thoroughly explained to me and the examina¬
tion, as conducted at the Brinkley Hospital, was thorough
and scientific, and it was optional with me as to whether 1
would be operated upon or not. I decided, however, to have
the operation and was operated upon May 6, 1929, Dr. John
R. Brinkley and his associates operating upon me for pros¬
tate gland trouble and I received the Brinkley Blood Re¬
duction Compound Operation.
At the time of the making of this affidavit I am enjoying
very good health and am very well satisfied with the opera¬
tion and treatment I received from Dr. John R. Brinklev,
his associates and employees and have no complaint of any
kind whatsoever about the way I was treated at the Brink-
ley Hospital,—in fact, I was very much impressed with the
clean and sanitary condition in which the Hospital was kept
and by Dr. Brinkley and his associates as being well edu¬
cated and efficient men in their profession, and the nurses
as being well trained in their duties.
615 When I went to the Brinkley Hospital to be exam¬
ined, I went there because I had Prostate Gland
trouble, and did not go to Dr. Brinkley for the purpose of
having my sexual powers restored in any way, nor did Dr.
Brinkley, or any of his associates or assistants, ever hold
out to me any such hope or inducement in any manner that
such results could be accomplished and I understood from
the reading of the literature and letters from Dr. Brinkley
and the Brinkley Hospital that sexual weakness was one of
the symptoms of prostate enlargement and that his opera¬
tion was for the purpose of preventing the removal of my
prostate gland and with this in mind, and this only, I al¬
lowed him and his associates to perform this operation
upon me.
In the past I have been a listener to many of the pro¬
grams of Radio Station KFKB, of Milford, Kansas and I
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.; 317
have enjoyed all of the features of this station’s programs
and consider them educational, as well as entertaining. Dr.
Brinkley’s lectures on health and right living are appre¬
ciated by and have been beneficial to me. In all of the lec¬
tures that I have heard Dr. Brinkley give, I have never
heard him use words, terms or phrases which would be un¬
becoming to public decency, or morals, or objectionable to
anyone, neither have I heard him make fraudulent, un¬
reliable or misleading statements.
H. ROMINES, M. D.,
i Affiant.
State of Texas,
County of Brown, ss:
Be it remembered, that on this 12th day of May, 1930,
before me, the undersigned, a Notary Public in and for the
County and State aforesaid, personally appeared Dr. H.
Romines, who is to me personally known, and who being by
me first duly sworn stated that he was able to read and
write the English language, that he had read the foregoing
affidavit, and that the matters and facts therein stated were
true, and he thereupon affixed his name to said affidavit
in my presence.
[seal.] W. J. SCOTT,
Notary Public in and for Brown
County, State of Texas.. .
My commission expires June 1st, 1931.
616 In the Court of Appeals of the District of Columbia.
No. 5240.
i
KFKB Broadcasting Ass’n, Inc., Appellant,
vs.
Federal Radio Commission, Appellee.
Stipulation as to Transcript of Record.
It is hereby stipulated and agreed that the Clerk of the
Court of Appeals of the District of Columbia shall make up
a transcript of the record in this action, and that the fol¬
lowing parts of the record be printed, excepting Kansas
318
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
Exhibits 1 and 2 entitled “Your Health” and “Paw and
Maw” respectively, and Commission’s Exhibit C entitled
“Life” originals of which are to be furnished to the Clerk
of the Court of Appeals of the District of Columbia for
incorporation in the record:
1. Appellant’s Notice of Appeal.
2. Appellee’s Statement of Facts.
3. Application of March 15tli, 1930, for renewal of li¬
cense.
4. Letter of May 5th signed Frank H. Lovette, appli¬
cant’s Exhibit 1.
5. Letters of May 14tli and May 16tli, applicant’s Ex¬
hibits 5 and 6.
6. General Order =zS7 of the Commission.
7. Commission’s Order of June 13th denying renewal of
license.
8. Testimony of Frank B. Falknor, beginning 4th line
from bottom of page 10 and including 1st line at top of
page 11, and lines 4 to 15 on page 14.
Testimony of D. 1). Denver, Jr., beginning page 14, to
page 15 inclusive; page 20, eighth line to and inclusive of
line 12, page 106; page 114 beginning 2nd paragraph and
ending page 115.
Testimony of Charles B. Trimmer, beginning page 119
and ending page 130.
Testimony of Mrs. Hazel Carlton, beginning page
617 130 and ending page 135.
Testimony of Mr. Earl M. Carlton, beginning page
135 and ending page 139.
Testimony of Mrs. B. Hall, beginning page 1.43 and end¬
ing page 144.
Testimony of Mrs. John Thompson, beginning page 145
and ending page 146.
Testimony of B. E. Parks, pages 147-150.
Testimony of Bertha Lacey, pages 150-156.
Testimony of Dr. Hugh Young, pages 156-169.
Testimony of Mrs. E. S. Shovlain, pages 174-185.
Testimony of Lee McChesney, pages 185-199.
Testimony of James A. Scheuren, pages 199-216.
Testimony of Ruby Athey, pages 216-243.
Testimony of Dr. *E. S. Edgerton, pages 262-299.
Testimony of Dr. James Stewart, pages 299-307, and
pages 330-343.
FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSION.
319
Testimony of C. L. Brown, pages 349-357.
(It is hereby agreed that there are nine other witnesses
who testified substantially the same.)
Testimony of Frederick Neaderhiser, pages 383-389.
Testimony of Dr. Tiberius L. Jones, pages 420-447.
Testimony of Dr. W. C. Purviance, pages 450-467.
Testimony of Dr. 0. M. Owensby, pages 467, to second
paragraph from bottom of page 478.
9. Exhibits: |
Three affidavits of Howard H. Wilson, applicant’s Ex¬
hibit 7, giving the shareholders of the corporation, that of
May 29th, 1930, setting forth the programs, and that of
May 28th, 1930, with financial statement attached.
Affidavits of Calvin J. Miller, applicant’s Exhibit 13;
Earl Eggers, applicant’s Exhibit 14; Mrs. J. K. Warken-
tin, applicant’s Exhibit 35; Mrs. E. N. Ewin, applicant’s
Exhibit 36; Percy S. Walker, applicant’s Exhibit 39; affi¬
davits of W. H. Emerson, dated March 29th, and of J. L.
Clark, Kenneth Rose, Clayton Selev, J. R. Brinkley, and
George W. Beard, dated May 28th;
Affidavit of Mrs. Emily Jager, of Fall City, Nebraska,
Exhibit #37. (It is hereby stipulated and agreed that
there were 500 affidavits similar thereto which were
618 introduced in evidence.)
Affidavit of Mrs. Homer Sisk, of Pittsburg, Kan¬
sas, Exhibit #38. (It is stipulated and agreed that there
were 1200 similar affidavits introduced in evidence.)
Affidavit of Thomas Cullan of Hemingford, Nebraska,
dated May 15th, 1930. (It is stipulated and agreed that
there were 208 similar affidavits introduced in evidence,
and that as to all affidavits counsel representing the appli¬
cant and Commission noted general exceptions against
conclusions of affiants, hearsay, immaterial Statements, al¬
terations, and relevancy.) I
Affidavit of Mrs. Mary Brakebill, Commission's Exhibit
E. Affidavit of Eugene Wallace, Commission’s Ex., F.
Stipulated and agreed 12 similar affidavits
objected to.
Affidavit of Grace Dedrick, with Exhibit A attached,
marked Commission’s Exhibit D.
Two letters marked applicant’s Exhibits :42a and 42b,
which are stipulated and agreed to be questions and an-
and all were
320
KFKB BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION, INC., VS.
swers referred to and identified by witness Ruby Athey
and to be samples of same taken from applicant’s Exhibit
#42.
Affidavit of John L. Zahner, Kansas Exhibit #6. (It
is hereby stipulated and agreed that nine other similar
affidavits were introduced in evidence and objected to on
the ground that they were not material and had been ma¬
terially altered.)
Affidavit of Dr. H. Romies, applicant’s Exhibit #48.
(It is stipulated and agreed that there were 13 similar
affidavits, introduced in evidence in rebuttal to the John
L. Zahner affidavit.-
10. Pages of transcript of hearing before the Federal
Radio Commission in above cause:
Last line bottom of page 310; page 311; page 312; and
all except the last two paragraphs on page 317.
11. This stipulation.
GEORGE E. STRONG,
GEORGE E. STRONG,
Attorney for Appellant.
BEN S. FISHER,
Attorney for Appellee...
619 [Endorsed:] Court of Appeals, District of Colum¬
bia. Filed Jul. 14, 1930. Henry W. Hodges, Clerk.
Endorsed on cover: Federal Radio Commission. No.
5240. KFKB Broadcasting Association, Inc., appellant,
vs. Federal Radio Commission. Court of Appeals, Dis¬
trict of Columbia. Filed Jun. 16, 1930. Henry W.
Hodges, Clerk.
(5153)
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